Condensor Failure

I think I'm up to 4 on the 3B, and now 1 condenser failure on the cj6. These are both stock type parts from flaps. What is going on here. What can cause so many condensors to fail so premature. Only 3-4 thousand miles on the B since finished with the build. Probably not more than a thousand on the cj6. I'm missing something. Any thoughts

 

Good luck with that. I've gone through a few of them myself in the past 2 years. Quality of parts has really tanked lately, especially electrical parts. All I can suggest is make sure all your connections are correct and clean, and try a different brand every time. You'll eventually get one that sticks.

 

Good thought about shopping around. All these have come from local NAPA.

 

I have learned to keep a spare or two in both jeeps.

 

I had a condensor go bad just a couple weeks after I bought it. I had a very hard time figuring out what was wrong. When I finally did, I decided to switch to pertronix. I didn't like the idea that I could be stranded at any time by a brand new condensor failing.

 

How do you feel about being stranded at any time by a pertronix failing? What is your reason to think pertronix is more durable?

I've been stranded more than once by electronic distributors, never by a condensor - in fifty years.

The electronics were extremely difficult to diagnose, since the failure mode was random. And a condensor is a lot easier and cheaper to carry and replace.

 

I have never had a bad one, but carry points, condenser, and rotor in the tool box. Would a ballast resistor make the difference? My 64 didn't have one, but the 67 V6 harness I used had one, which I didn't use. I used an internal resister coil. Just a thought.

 

I've had one in my Jeep since 1999
I keep the stock points & condenser in the Jeep in case of failure, but have never had to use it.
When they first came out, back in the early 90's, I was working at an auto parts store...we sold a lot of them and I don't recall any comebacks. It's a very simple and reliable design IMO.

 

I have been running pertronix in both my jeeps for several years now. Far better than points and condenser. The condenser has left me stranded several times.

 

What is the outcome of a condenser going bad while driving? Is it an immediate engine shut down, or a sputtering engine that enables you drive to a safe place to make a condenser replacement?

 

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Yes its true that the Pertronix could fail, but with so many reports of bad condensors right out of the box or after a short period, I just don't trust them. Maybe others have had better luck than I finding a source of quality condensors.

The pertronix units seem to be of pretty good quality. Theres really not that much to them. And theres nothing to prevent you from carrying a spare set of points and condensor and swapping them out if it does fail.

Now those Omix fully electronic distributors are a whole other story. I wouldn't touch one of those...

 

Pretty puzzling, that after driving old vehicles of all kinds for a half century, it has never happened to me.

 

Mine were random misfires, explosive backfires... really hard to diagnose. And like Pete said, having gone decades without thinking twice about a condenser because they were always the most reliable link in the chain, it's the last place you look for a problem.

I just found a thread I ran with audio of my bad condenser and a dissection of the faulty unit.
This is what a bad condenser sounded like.

 

Same here. Coils and condensers are to be installed as a matched pair. Since coil resistance varies per auto manufacture, so does the condenser value. I never understood why they insisted on mounting the condenser inside the distributor. Some foreign manufacturers mounted the condenser outside the dist. This would be cooler for the part. The cond can be connected to the Negative terminal of the coil and the case to ground and function very normally and would be easy to change if failure occured.

 

I'm guessing the low quality of condensors is a pretty recent thing, and maybe only a problem with a specific brand or application? Obviously not all condensors are made the same. All I know is that the ones available for F134 at my local auto parts places are junk.

What brand do you use in your 134? And how long are they lasting?

 

Geez, I am shocked at how many people have had condensor failures. Back in the day, we kinda thought it was one of those parts you routinely replaced when you did a tuneup. Did you really need a new condensor? Probably not.

It's a really simple part - let me expound a little on capacitors. These parts are passives, like resistors and inductors. They have no moving parts, and rely on the intrinsic electromagnetic properties of the material they are made of for their electrical characteristics. Condensors (capacitors) has been around for centuries, since before plastics were cheap. I presume the earliest automotive ones were simply paper and foil rolled up with a lead connected. Very simple, not much can go wrong - they can short out, they can go open. Today, with modern plastics for the dielectric, it should be both easy and ridiculously cheap to make a very sturdy condensor for automotive use that will last indefinitely. If you choose a high-spec dielectric like teflon or polycarbonate, you could build a suitable condensor for less than a buck that would have a voltage rating of thousands of volts and last for decades ...

Are these failures all for F134s, or for other applications? Because in my years around cars, dealership days, and years of parts counter work, I don't remember anyone actually fixing a problem with a car by replacing the condensor. This makes me think some supplier is today selling a really terrible replacement part which is a cheapo 3c capacitor inside a metal can, with a flimsy mylar dielectric and barely adequate voltage rating.

Look here - http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/ - this guy pretty much mirrors my thoughts on this. If you have a condensor failure, IMO you were sold a horrendously crappy part and it's failing. My first thought would be to find a higher quality part, like a Standard DR77X, and change the lead or bracket to work in the target distributor. It's just a capacitor ...

Regarding Walt's comment that the coil and condensor are sold as a tuned system, I doubt that has much effect. My understanding is that the condensor is a debouncing component for the mechanical contacts that limits arcing across the points, not a component in an LC circuit with the coil. It's there to make the points last longer. The same coil used with points ignition works fine with an electronic module, which replaces the Kettering trigger entirely, and does not need a condensor.

Ok, reading a little more about this, the circuit is called a snubber - Snubber - Wikipedia - and Walt is right, the coil resistance is in series with the capacitor. However, I think the condensor rating does not matter that much, considering how interchangeable coils are between applications. Pretty sure you can use any value around 0.3 uF. The most cautious approach would be to pick a new replacement part, measure its capacitance, and use another capacitor that's of a similar value.