Clutch Problem

Clutch Problem?

1969 Jeep CJ5 with the dauntless v6 and a 3 speed.

Ok - This is what I did. The jeep had been sitting for about 2 years before I bought it. The brakes had frozen to the drums. Instead of taking the wheels, tires, and drums off to free the brakes I got the bright idea to put it in gear and try to force the brakes free. I know I Know but at the time it seemed to be a good idea. When I let the clutch out I heard a loud pop. The clutch pedal now moves with no resistance and the clutch does not disengage. I have checked the linkage and it appears fine. What do you guys think? Fork? Pressure Plate?

 

Dang, that's an unfortunate experience. Here's a few ideas:

Can you start the CJ in low gear and run 'er? Try that first...maybe you'll get lucky. Drive with the clutch in full-time. Something might free up. Oh, be sure to change out all fluids first, including gas (they get nasty after a couple years).

Hmm, I'm curious as to how the brakes could ever freeze to the drums. Can you push the Cj in neutral? If so, then the brakes haven't frozen the CJ motionless. If the brakes adhered to the drums, it seems to me that you wouldn't have been able to pull them off anyway, lol.

So you've gotten underneath, and yanked the clutch pedal down with your hand to verify no clutch disengagement? Try that again, and notice minute fork twistage or other oddness. Feel free to tighten up all clutch gear (I assume you have the bellcrank system?) If possible, have an assistant depress the clutch over and over while your expert eyes peer for loose ends.

I highly doubt a pressure plate/clutch would be the culprit, but that's just my inexperienced hunch. More likely a clutch linkage issue, but if you've verified OK linkage, then it's either the T.O. bearing or fork. Can you get a small mirror into the fork area to see if maybe the fork popped off the ball?

 

Looks like it'd be really easy to determine what happened here.

Just start at the pedal and work all the way to the fork. I'm betting either the fork broke @ the side of the bellhousing or like Alan said, the fork popped off the detent ball. Course if this happend the clip that holds it on must have broken.

If it's broke it should wiggle back and forth freely.

What are the chances he depressed the clutch and the clutch frose on the input shaft in the "dissengaged" position, holding the fingers of the clutch "IN"?

 

Drum brakes are infamous for sticking when left sitting, especially if in the open with moisture. I have lots of old cars sitting around and am well practiced at taking the wheels off to bang on the drum with a hammer to shake the rust loose when it is time to move them around.

I had a similar experience the other day but it was slightly different. My CJ had been sitting for a few weeks and when I tried to start it, the clutch would not disengage. I traced the linkage....all was working. Here is what I did. I put the CJ in gear, depressed the cluthch and turned the key. It "walked" a few feet on the the starter and then clutc just let go. Still not sure why it happened.

 

For starters you ought to forget about the clutch and look at the brakes first. I doubt they are "frozen", but I do think they are adjusted way too tight.

I have had this problem on two late model (70 and 71) jeeps that have sat for years. Somehow, don't ask how, the brakes in the rear were adjusted so tight that the wheel would not turn and one dragged it across the floor. One of these jeeps was that way when I got it and the other "froze" after rolling it about the shop for a few months - no engine in the jeep at the time.

Jack up each wheel with the transfer in neutral and see which one(s) won't turn and adjust them. Adjusting won't fix them, but it will get your rolling again. You will probably have to take the drum off to do this and that is a pain in and of itself. You will likely have to adjust the brakes AND manually push the shoes inward to make the wheel cylinder go back in. This is not a fix for the brakes, but it will make the thing roll again.

Y'know, every time I've driven a vehicle and the clutch went out ( 4 times on 3 different vehicles) it gave the symptoms you describe. It could have been marginal and with the stress of trying to make a jeep go with brakes "frozen" may have been just enough to make the clutch go south.

Now that your jeep is rolling, trying to make the jeep move about and freeing up the clutch is worth a shot, but I'd be surprised if you aren't heading for a clutch replacement.

And by the way, if I am right about your brakes, when you do the brakes I would suggest replacing all brake lines. That may sound like overkill, but do you really want to bet your life that all the brake lines are good and none have deteriorated internally? I never use NOS brake parts - they too, have 40+ years of age on them.

good luck - and it isn't as bad as it seems, but you are looking at a fair amount of work.

 

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Thanks for the replies - I think you guys nailed it on the fork coming off the detent ball. I haven't had too much time to look at it but I did manage to find time to crawl under it and check the linkage and fork again. While having someone depress the clutch pedal and at the same time checking the fork movement the clutch began to work again. Before it started to work again the fork did wiggle back and forth freely like John said. I guess while I was tugging on the fork I must have got it back on the detent ball. I need a smaller mirror so I can get a better look. If that is the case like it appears to be how hard will it be to replace the clip. Should I go ahead and just replace the clutch?

 

clean and lube everything first, before pulling the clutch. thought mine was bad till i hit the linkage w/wd-40 followed by greasing everthing.

 

It's real tough to re-put that fork back onto the ball while in. Dang it, I've bent up my fork's springs pretty bad trying to get the dang thing re-clipped. Had to go inside eventually anyway due to inevitable failure. :evil:

Maybe grab an inspection mirror to verify whether or not one or both tongs of the spring clip are actually in correct position. Don't "go inside" (drop tranny or pull V6) unless you absolutely have to. Good luck!