CJ3b Beastie

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by browncoat, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Apr 15, 2017
    browncoat

    browncoat Member

    Maitland Australia
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    Build info for the 3B starts on page 2.
    The 226Cu engine has now been sold to a truck owner who can use the correct engine in his restoration.
    Thank you to all replies for their opinions and info about my initial question on that engine's suitability of being transplanted into a 3B. It probably saved me a bit of disappointment in the long run.
    Over the time of this post being on the board I came to the same conclusions as the majority of replies suggested, and have ultimately decided on a diesel setup and a more modernised build to resurrect this old girl.

    New plan is to build the 3B as a 5 speed turbo diesel that should be both fuel efficient and powerful enough to move it at highway speeds and have good torque to make the 5.38 diff ratios awesome off road.


    Hello all, first post here and have learned a lot from reading the info here and other forums since getting the jeep disease after many years of wanting one.

    I am currently finalizing a CJ5 '74 model that has been a great experience and very satisfying, and already have the next project lined up.

    It will be a CJ3B tub that is currently in a bit of a beat up condition mounted on an earlyish CJ5 chassis. Dana 44 rear and a 27 front axle.

    In the package deal I also picked up a 226cu flathead willys super hurricane straight 6.

    Now i know the 3B did not come with the straight 6 but initial mockup suggests it could be done with a little firewall mod and maybe a small extension of the hood and fenders.

    Both hood and fenders I would need to make anyway so no big deal.

    Anyone done this or a similar engine transplant before?

    Pics of the cj5 and the cj3b if they work.


    N[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  2. Apr 15, 2017
    mortten

    mortten Member

    Peninsula, Ohio
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    Many better engines to stick in there. Well the straight 6 to someone restoring a Willys truck or wagon.
     
  3. Apr 15, 2017
    melvinm

    melvinm New Member

    Arvada Co. 80003
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    Bill's Jeep Specialists did the 196 232 and 258 Engine Conversion in the

    CJ3B CJ5 and CJ6 back in the 60's and early 70's .

    He did A great job on them .
     
  4. Apr 15, 2017
    montanacj

    montanacj Sponsor Sponsor

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    That 3b has seen a lot of weather. But if it looks half as nice as the jeep you just finished it'll be purdy when done
     
  5. Apr 15, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
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    If you want a straight 6 I personally would go with either a GM 250 rebuilt using the pistons from a 307 V8 (gives a nice 10-1 compression ratio) or a Ford 200-250 L6 both are easy to find adapters to the T-90 and both are supported by a lot of after market stuff.
     
  6. Apr 15, 2017
    browncoat

    browncoat Member

    Maitland Australia
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    Thanks for the advice gents, I did consider going with original 4 cylinder or a more modern option like a toyota diesel 4cyl setup and getting the engineer certificates which would be required to get it on the road.

    But the problem with going with a different engine is that I am in Australia so the options of finding any engine here that will suit a bell housing conversion would be virtually impossible, or I suspect would be very expensive to import.

    Plus I would like to utilise an engine from the similar era as the rest of it for the novelty factor.
    I know the 226 is not the greatest option but it is what I have and the gearbox bolts straight on which are 2 pluses it has going for it.

    It is helpful to know that it has been done before though so I am not completely nuts.
    I will keep thinking about it and keep the eyes open for other options.
     
  7. Apr 15, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If you have nothing else, an inline 6 can be put in the CJ-3B engine compartment. However, if there were any possible way to avoid it, I would. And, I would not consider the 226 as a reasonable choice if I had to fit an inline 6. The 226 was an excellent engine in its time, but it is a very old design, heavy for its displacement, low on power for its displacement, with an antiquated L-head design.

    In Oz, the CJ-5 was delivered with the Ford Falcon engine, but they had to move the firewall back to fit this engine. The Falcon engine is short for an inline 6, which make fitment easier than many other inline 6s (like the 226), but you still have to move the firewall back ... this has the added disadvantage of requiring a shortened rear driveshaft, which is already quite short in a CJ-3B.

    In the USA, we have our choice of some excellent and popular V6s, and dozens of additional V6s could be adapted if the common V6s were not so readily available. Just because you have the engine does not make it a good swap. I would emphatically and sincerely urge you to look around for a V6 or inline 4 that would be so much better for this swap. In Oz, you could perhaps swap in one of the many different Toyota or Nissan diesel inline 4s that seem so plentiful there. We in the USA would love to have the diesel engine choices that you have there.
     
  8. Apr 15, 2017
    75 DJ

    75 DJ Member Sponsor

    Des Moines, IA
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    And welcome to the site!
     
  9. Apr 15, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Like Tim, I would be VERY reluctant to use the 226. While it may be obsolete, it would have sufficient usable power. But as pointed out, the rear driveshaft will likely be too short to be functional without lengthening the frame and tub. This is certainly a case of "just because you have it doesn't mean you should use it". A near infinite number of WAY better choices for transplants. I have to assume small block Chevys were used down under-----

    Welcome to the site. If you haven't already been there, the 3B Page is a great resource also and has some engine swap information:
    CJ3B Bulletin Board

    CJ3B.info is The CJ3B Page
     
  10. Apr 15, 2017
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Welcome from Ga.
     
  11. Apr 15, 2017
    browncoat

    browncoat Member

    Maitland Australia
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    Thanks guys, yep I have been to cj3b bulletin board and it is excellent.

    Small V8's are available here but are in demand even second hand for the rat rod blokes.

    The ford falcon 6cyl version was called a combat 6 here as a marketing ploy but even they had to have the firewall modified I believe.

    The idea was going to be to build this one up as cheap as possible cause I spent a fair amount on the cj5 already. But, it's only money. ha ha.

    The other issue I would have with going to a toyota diesel would be that the toyota gearbox and transfer case is I think, longer than the T90 with spicer 18. So the tailshaft angle would be even worse, and most toyota ones are central and wont line up to the offset diff in the older dana 44.

    Still some thought to put in to all this.
     
  12. Apr 16, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    If you had a better availability of engine choices I'd say don't use the 226, but you don't so why not go ahead and use it. You already know what issues you are up against, and having the CJ5 frame should help a bit with it fitting.
     
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  13. Apr 18, 2017
    Unkel Dale

    Unkel Dale Can A grinder cut it off?

    Pittsburgh, Pa.
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    Browncoat, Welcome from Pittsburgh, PA.
    Inline four would be my choice. Where else can you hide the beer cooler if it is all engine under the hood.
    Diesel would be best there. Australia is a large place, how about a city name too in your profile?
    There is an American vendor that has an aluminum plate to change any engine to any transmission. CJ5 jeeps ARE SHORT. Cj6 frames were preferred, they are longer. Most Jeeps swaps with Toyota are problematic at best. Moving cross members, engine mounts, lengthening the frame to move the leaf springs, cutting fire walls.
    Last suggestion, is there a friend who is a machinist?
    Nice looking cj5.
     
  14. Apr 19, 2017
    browncoat

    browncoat Member

    Maitland Australia
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    Hi Unkel Dale, thanks for the compliment, I am a boilermaker (fabricator welder) by trade with a sideline as a machinist/ gunsmith/ woodworker/ leather worker/ anything else that needs doing, so I am not helpless by any means. So yeah, I could get very creative if I need to.

    I am not totally committed to the super hurricane yet, I have to check out an old ute at my fathers place which donated the booster for the brakes in the cj5 to see if anything else there would be useful.
    I think it had a 4 cylinder petrol (a Mitsubishi from memory) but if it was a diesel that may have been another option.

    Still keeping an eye out.

    Work gets in the way of the fun stuff.
     
  15. Apr 19, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Regarding the 226, how had you planned to connect the engine to the rest of the drivetrain? I suspect there's no easy way to connect the T-90 transmission from the CJ-3B to the 226 without using the long input shaft that is normally used with the 226. This input shaft is a few inches lionger than the CJ-3B input shaft, adding some extra length to the engine/transmission combination.

    With the Toyota diesel I was suggesting you use the Jeep transmission and transfer case with the Toyota engine. This would require an adapter between the engine and transmission. Again, the Utility Wagon input shaft used with the 226 will give you some extra length if you need more length between the bellhousing and the transmission for the adapter. This is discussed on the Novak site - The Novak Guide to the Borg-Warner T90 Transmission

    You don't have to use a diesel engine. There's some discussion of putting a 22RE Toyota petrol engine in a CJ on the net. You'd likely need a plate adapter made to fit between the Toyota bellhousing and the Jeep transmission. This sort of swap has been done many times - a competent machinist can make an adapter. The main requirement is the input shaft stickout has to be longer than the depth of the Toyota bellhousing. One 4-cylinder swap that is popular in the USA is the Ford Lima 2000/2300, aka the "Pinto engine." Novak has a page about this - Adapting the Ford 2000 & 2300 I4 Engines to the Jeep T90 Transmission This is quite a popular choice here, and there is a lot of discussion of this swap on the internet. Not sure how available these engines are in Oz... unfortunately, I think the domestic inline 6 production from Ford prevented any importing of these engines.
     
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  16. Apr 19, 2017
    browncoat

    browncoat Member

    Maitland Australia
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    Hi Timgr, I did get a T90 with an adaptor/extension plate and a spicer 18 plus a few other parts gearboxes and transfer case in the deal.
    I have not played with that fit up to the bell housing on the 226 as yet.

    To be honest I am still learning about Willy's engine gearbox combinations and I wasn't sure if I might have to swap input shafts around till something worked, and another thing I noticed was that with the 226 sitting where I thought it would go best, that the gearbox crossmember may also have to move back a little which would change the shaft angles as well.

    Once I finalise the CJ5 I will be having a more in depth look at the 3B.

    Thanks For the links, more info is always best.

    A diesel would be good and learning that an adaptor plate to use the original gearbox would be possible is new info for me, so all options are still on the table.
     
  17. Apr 19, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    tim always has good advice . I would try and stay with a 4 cylinder engine . welcome from usa/virginia
     
  18. Apr 19, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    What about the 22re with its transmission... would that bolt up to a t-case from a land cruiser to give your offset output?

    I have no idea on lengths or compatibilities, I'm just throwing an idea out there. My buddy has a doubled Toyota drivetrain in his CJ7 and loves it.
     
  19. May 22, 2017
    Spicolli

    Spicolli jeep geek

    So. Cal.
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    Nissan Patrols should be plentiful in your neck of the woods. Get the drive train from one. Or Toyota should also be around to scavenge.

    You may be luck and find one of those small aluminum Hemi engines out there as well. They came in some Limousine. Check around. Could be a sweet setup.
    Good luck and happy hunting.
     
  20. May 25, 2017
    masscj2a

    masscj2a Sponsor Sponsor

    Chester Mass
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    Dauntless? or 231 ? 4.3 ? All good choices . It would be interesting with the hurricane, but better driver with one the other choices. Good luck either way and let us know with pics. Nice CJ 5 by the way.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017

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