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Buick V6 Clutch questions

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by ggreenwood37, May 31, 2011.

  1. May 31, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Here is the setup:

    [​IMG]

    I have a 4 foot cable that crosses over the frame rail.

    [​IMG]

    I wanted to upgrade this setup to the chain setup, but was told that i can't do that when I called to order it. Should i just get a replacement cable? The clutch felt terrible when I bought the thing, and I'd like to keep the stock pedals.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Nice groove that fits perfectly on the lip of the backing plate.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I'm going to order a new fork, should I get a new backing plate as well? I didn't see any part numbers on the backing plate, should I just order one for the engine (take the block numbers, and ask for the corresponding vehicle?)
     
  2. May 31, 2011
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If the cable works, it's a great system. I'd keep it - esp. if there is a replacement cable available.

    Backing plate? You mean the clutch cover? I'd definitely put a new disk, cover, pilot bushing and TO bearing in while I have it apart. Short money for that much insurance, IMO.

    You may have the wrong TO bearing for the diaphragm clutch. The clutch fork should not contact the cover.

    I'd also cover that hole someone hacked into the bellhousing ... or better, replace the bell.

    Welcome to the world of DSPOs.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  3. May 31, 2011
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Also, year/model/equipment? Including this info in your sig (signature file) will speed up replies.
     
  4. May 31, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
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    I will update my sig when I double check the figures, I believe the engine is cast as a 79 - 81 231 V6, Even-Fire, Turbo Charged. I double check that when I get home, I don't have my notebook with me. T-90 mated to a Spicer T/C with a Warn OD.

    The jeep is a '59, dana 44 Rear, 27 front. Saginaw steering swap done by PO.

    I was just going to order a new clutch cable and fork from: http://www.the-jeep-guy.com/Transmission.htm

    The shortest one listed should work, but i've heard bad reviews of this guy..
     
  5. May 31, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    A '59 with a 27, and that cable setup smells of a drive train swap. Double check the tranny (T86 can have a T90 top on it) and the stamps on the drive train Items. I have several 'mix and match' rigs.
     
  6. May 31, 2011
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Looks to me like the factory Jeep clutch cable setup ... like '70 or '71? IIRC those cables are still available as a replacement part, if it's a Jeep setup. Seem awfully tidy not to be the factory setup.
     
  7. May 31, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
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    Aug 27, 2010
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    It is possible that the front axle is a 25, I haven't cleaned off the years of gunk yet to find the casting numbers on the axle. When I ordered new parts for the disc swap, 25 and 27 parts all seemed to be interchangable (seals, felt wipers, bearings etc.)

    I'm sure its a t-90 trans, the case is stamped t-90. Thats getting rebuilt as soon as my brass drifts get shipped. If the cable is okay where it is, i'll just order the one from the JeepGuy. I was just concerned with it being over the frame rail and above the muffler. That just didn't seem like a good idea to me. Does clutch fork matter? Should i get one for the '70?
     
  8. May 31, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    The clutch cable should be re-routed away from that muffler; heat will kill the cable.
    If you can't re-reoute, then wrap it and protect it.
    To test the cable, you could simply dis-connect the cable from either end, and pull on the cable by hand; it should move freely; if not, it could have been damaged by heat or dirt or other problem......

    As Tim has mentioned, I would replace the clutch as an assembly. I don't recall the raised lip on the pressure plate that's making contact with the fork; it's not on my new 225 clutch.
     
  9. May 31, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    The clutch cable and it's components appear to be the factory set-up. You could purchase that as a kit from Jeep and convert the clutch when installing a V6. The cable on the frame appears to be welded; the kit bracket would have bolted to the frame, installers decision I suppose.
    The aftermarket replacement cables don't have a good reputation for quality/reliability.
    My factory clutch cable has been in use since new in 1983; I would try to re-use that existing cable if it's in good shape.
    New doesn't neccesarily mean better anymore.
     
  10. Jun 2, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
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    I tried to pull the clutch cable, and it is very difficult to budge it. I'm having a hard time understanding why I couldn't upgrade to the chain kit from Novak, but a new replacement cable will certainly be cheaper.

    Took the Cover and pressure plate off the clutch:

    [​IMG]

    the springs show wear, appears they were hitting the flywheel bolts:

    [​IMG]

    So I guess my next steps are to get the flywheel off and take it to a machine shop. I'll have to check around the Pittsburgh area for one that does this. From what I understand I should order a 10.5 clutch for a '78 Buick with a 3.8 v6, make does not matter. Correct?

    Thanks for all the replies, this is truly new ground for me.
     
  11. Jun 2, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Unless you removed it the pilot bushing in the crankshaft is missing also. It supports the input shaft of the transmission and is very important....
     
  12. Jun 2, 2011
    Vhunter

    Vhunter Member

    Redding, California
    Joined:
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    With all those problems with your clutch, I don't see the cable being the problem. If you can get a replacement cable keep that setup. Back in old days when we stated putting V6's in these things we used that stock Jeep Cable arrangement all the time, never had a problems with them, they worked great with stock pedals. There used to be a great article on the Jeepster Commando sites about the correct parts for a V6 clutch setup, what the correct throw out bearing and such for a light clutch pedal.
     
  13. Jun 2, 2011
    JAlves

    JAlves Sponsor

    Yuba City, CA
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    It's been a long time since I replaced a clutch but doesn't the spring dampener face the pressure plate?
     
  14. Jun 2, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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  15. Jun 2, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    I guess I am amazed the clutch even worked with the disc installed backwards and no pilot bearing. You would have thought just the sound of the dampener spings on the flywheel bolts would have been some sort of cue. Will be interesting to see what the input shaft/mainshaft needles look like. They may be a bit oval shaped. Hope the input and main are still useable.
     
  16. Jun 2, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
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    I'll get pictures of those tonight. Like I said, the clutch sucked when i got it. I literally had to let it out all the way before there was any grab. But between the cable being frozen from years of neglect and being on top of the muffler, and the fact that the clutch was held on with bolts that seemed to only be hand tightened, nothing surprises me at this point. I'm going to go ahead and order a new clutch kit that comes with the pilot bearing as well as a new cable.
     
  17. Jun 2, 2011
    willie2323

    willie2323 New Member

    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Dec 10, 2009
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    Greetings,
    I have a 71 CJ5 I purchased new. I have the cable system and way back I tried to change to a chain system and novak rejected me as well. I am fuzzy as to why but believe the offset from frame mounting point is not properly inline. In any event way back I purchased a spare cable from Jeep and still have it. if you find a supplier of this cable you will be lucky...good luck.

    cheers,

    Bill
     
  18. Jun 2, 2011
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
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  19. Jun 2, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    wow
    that had to make some kind of noise
    make sure you install the t/o bearing correctly on your replacement fork.
     
  20. Jun 2, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    992533 is the correct part number that Jeep used......
     
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