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Brakes: an 11inch Question on retaining pins

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Danefraz, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    All,

    I'm close to finishing this late-braking adventure, it's been since about 1991 since I last did a set of drum brakes... I'm rusty but I bought all new parts and have polished my knuckles, my sailor's adjectives (though I've never served) and well, you get the idea...

    Here's the photo of my front driver's side, it's washed out (sorry, this is the best my $600 fruit would manage at the time of day I shot it).

    [​IMG]

    In this picture, there are two holes per side (4) for the hold down pins, springs and retainers, both in the backing plate and in the shoe/frame. The second hole is about an inch and a half below the first (give or take).

    I've elected to use the top hole for the pins/keepers, but I can't find reference to whether I should use the bottom, or if I should use both (the raybestos kit I have supplied enough pins, springs, etc to do 4 pins per side).

    by reference, this is a photo of rear brakes from R&P's web site, no holes in the shoe/frames and one set of retaining springs per side (not two):
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Feb 10, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    The R&P setup looks correct.
    Only one pin per shoe.
     
  3. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    If it's best for 1 pin per shoe... then do I use the upper hole or the lower... forgot to ask that...

    I've trolled thru the interwebs a bit and can't seem to find a definitive.

    Thanks
    D
     
  4. Feb 10, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    One pin. Lower hole.

    [​IMG]

    from 1975 TSM.
     
  5. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Thanks Tim!

    moving on with 1 per shoe, lower hole. My FSM only shows my original wagner brakes, and I was looking for that very image you posted, thanks!

    As a note: looking thru the box of old brake parts, I see that there is a full compliment of pins, springs and retainers (for 2 per shoe).

    dragging things sideways a second: Pondering the possibility of why two per shoe, besides 'if one is good, two must be better'...
     
  6. Feb 10, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    If one works (and that's what the factory uses), why risk adding another?

    I suspect there's no second one because you don't need a second one... and your kit contains enough parts to cover many applications. It can be more cost effective to add extra parts and have fewer stocking numbers. For the factory, extra unneeded parts add up to real money.

    Glad I could help!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  7. Feb 10, 2016
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The discrepancy is because you have Ford backing plates and many Ford's used two retaining pins per shoe. Jeep did not. One per shoe is all that is necessary ala Jeep. Your Ford backing plates work just fine, there are just a few minor differences that really don't mean much for your use. The Jeep brake parts work just fine with the Ford backing plates also.
     
  8. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Nick!

    Helps me understand where these parts were sourced when I sourced them from CL...

    dane
     
  9. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Last question:
    If I am not planning on having the rear emergency brakes in use (have a driveline e-brake and don't have the cabling for the rear ones at this time...

    do I need to keep these parts in there, or should I put them in my stash for when I'm ready to do the e-brake conversion to the rear wheels? Seems they'd work just as the fronts would minus these parts...

    Thoughts, assumptions, opinions?

    thanks folks.

    dane
     
  10. Feb 10, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    So my next question was around using the cane handle to actuate the rear 11" e-brakes...
    Using google-foo :: site:earlycj5.net e-brake
    - consensus from two that'd done it -> not enough force to hold the rear brakes, use a lever (from others).

    this recent thread I remembered but had forgotten the specifics on answered my questions...
    Parking Brake | EarlyCJ5.com

    Leaving out the e-brake fixtures. Will keep for later, while rounding up parts for a potential conversion using a floor mounted lever handle (one from a TJ may work).
    several additional parts will be needed:
    the T-cable adjuster/balancer
    a right-side cable
    a left side cable

    and time to fab it into the floor and then pull the rear wheels and brakes and re-assemble.

    Thanks again all for the help, this has been very useful.

    dane
     
  11. Feb 10, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Yes, just remove the levers and equalizer bars. The backing plates are the same except for the stamped-in socket for the parking brake cable.

    If you want to use the cable brakes, I would suggest a foot pedal like the later CJs used. Connect it the same way.
     
  12. Feb 10, 2016
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
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    The Cane handle is just fine for rear E brakes. You put one of your big bug stompers down hard on the pedal to the left of the Go pedal and smash the braken paddens hard against the drumins and then pull out the Cane to hold the tension. Easy peasy
     
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  13. Feb 11, 2016
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  14. Feb 11, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Ed, Mark and Tim,

    Thank you... so many choices...

    Just came in from the brakes... and the front hubs... warn premium...
    - you know when you take photos of stuff you took apart, then can't find said photos in the detritus of digital delights... makes for an interesting puzzle... the little wrapping spring spacer that goes in the back of the hub center... that one threw me for a bit... had a light coating of red grease all over creation while figuring that bugger out... once I got that, it was easy peasy.

    Note the 'kit' for the warn premiums supplies fender washers that are just a smidge too wide, so you need to use a little -kinetic adapter- to set them strait so that the drum slips over the hubs...

    Now I'm down to making sure all the external stuff is tightened...

    Have a heavy old chrome diff cover for both the D-27 and the D-44... adding bling soon. something shiny to leave scraped on a rock. At least though they're 2x-3x thicker than what I have...

    I think I have a thread on these around here somewheres... post-dot-net and pre-dot-com... I say they're 'buttoned up' and ready to mount tires on and hang on the frame... oh, the frame... next step.

    ug, it's late...

    Thanks again.
     
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