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Brake input from those that did various upgrades

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by mickeykelley, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Mar 20, 2016
    Don X

    Don X The Prodigal Moderator Staff Member 2023 Sponsor

    San Diego,...
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    Best way to prevent problems with wet brakes is to only cross rivers with dry water.

    That being said, the brakes can dry out unevenly. If they do, watch out. You'll drastically pull to one side or the other. That usually ends up with a sharp outburst from your wife.
     
  2. Mar 25, 2016
    wasillashack

    wasillashack Member

    Wasilla, Alaska
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    Drums = not good when wet, continuous adjustment to maintain pedal height, time consuming to replace, usually less effective braking than disks.
    Disks = not affected by wet for very long, pretty much self adjusting, replace pads in 15-20 minutes, greater braking for the same pedal effort.
    Also depends a lot on tire size, type of vehicle use and terrain. Plus, parts for drums are getting harder to find and will only get worse. I have a HydroVac brake system on my '72 Chevy C50, they will put your teeth on the steering wheel, when the truck is empty, and work exceptionally when loaded. Like any system that old or older when you walk into the parts store and say Hydro Vac, be prepared for some strange looks! And it won't be in their confuser! I'm using a Hydrooost on my CJ6 with disks on front and back. My 2 cents. Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
    Focker likes this.
  3. Mar 25, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Mmm. I don't understand the pedal height complaint. Self-adjusting drum brakes adjust. the 11"x2" Bendix brakes that nearly everyone uses are self-adjusting. They do have a shorter service life than disk brakes though. Expect to install new shoes every 20K-30K miles. Disks last about 40K in my experience.

    Not that time consuming. You need some special tools, but they don't take that much longer than disks.

    Dana 60 drums - these are Delco brakes.

    J20RightBrakes.jpg
     
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  4. Mar 25, 2016
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The Bendix 11" brakes only self adjust when backing up and applying then releasing the brakes frequently. That is assuming the self adjusting mechanisms are in good working order. If driving habits don't support this then the brakes have to be manually adjusted periodically.
     
  5. Mar 25, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Back in the '70s I did many brake jobs. Adjust as close as you could and then spend time in the parking lot to get them to self adjust, In reverse.
    My 3B has Bendix and Wagner 11" brakes. it takes longer to get the jack in place than does to adjust brakes. The rear sort of does suck with the Powerlock rear, you have to jack up both sides.
     
  6. Mar 25, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Not that frequently, in my experience. Normal around-town driving - backing out of the driveway, backing out of parking spaces, etc. - was sufficient. I never noticed any lack of adjustment and I daily drove cars with the Bendix drum brakes (F-100, Jeep, Jeep, F-100) for 25 years.

    I would call that "not broken." With sufficient new parts and correct assembly, they work fine.

    Not arguing - just commenting.
     
  7. Mar 25, 2016
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    My point was that certain conditions have to be met for the self adjusters to work, and those conditions are frequently not met. Therefore the brakes have to be manually adjusted to keep them working properly. If they have have worked fine for you over the years that is a good thing and be happy about it. But by no means do those conditions fit everyone. For example, in my area we have lots of what we call hilly areas. From what I've seen of the Midwest and Eastern U.S. Folks in those areas would call them "mountains". What that means is the friction material and the drums wear away much faster than the self adjusters can keep the brakes adjusted. Therefore the brakes need periodic manual adjustment to keep them working correctly. Especially if the folks do not drive in reverse and apply the brakes frequently.
    I've seen this in flatter areas too where the driver backs out but does not fully apply the brakes when they have a manual transmission. They back out, coast to a stop or slow enough to put in first gear, then go. Very, very common.
     
  8. Mar 27, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

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    Just to add. When I did the brake work I needed to be going at a fair speed and almost had to stomp on the brakes in reverse to get them to adjust. With the radio off and the window down, you could hear them click as they adjusted. Still not as good as being under a car and doing the adjustments yourself. A few started to pull to one side and they didn't adjust at the same rate.
     
  9. Mar 28, 2016
    wasillashack

    wasillashack Member

    Wasilla, Alaska
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    Here in Alaska, drum self adjusters seem to rust/corrode quit working quite often, may be due to brakes heating up in use and then drawing condensate when they cool off. Plus water crossings are very common here. I have tried anti-seize, dry film graphite, and silicone spray without much success on the threaded adjusters.
     
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  10. Mar 28, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I have used both drum and disk on jeeps and trucks etc.

    I worked on farm trucks growing up and as a mechanics helper for a little while when he needed help. This was when drum brakes were common. When he did a drum brake job he would basically throw everything out and replace with new. Star adjusters were generally frozen, E brake cables were generally frozen too, axle seals and wheel cylinders were leaking too. the drum brakes required a lot more periodic maintenance.

    I always took apart my star adjusters and put anti seize on the threads and even though I did the back up and apply brakes I would still have to adjust the adjusters.

    18 years ago I replaced the original heel/toe adjusted brakes on the front of my 2A with bendix style 11" drums. It was night and day difference in a positively safe awesome way.
     
  11. Mar 28, 2016
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Well-Known Member

    Republic of Texas
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    Will the front drum brakes on a 55 wagon fit on the rear of a CJ? And is it a direct bolt on? I'm really leaning towards disc on both the wagon and CJ, then re-use the wagon fronts to help upgrade the CJ rears, assuming they are good.
     
  12. Mar 28, 2016
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    There is definitely a world of difference between the 9" brakes and 11" brakes, and it isn't so much the type of adjustment as it is the physical size.
     
  13. Mar 28, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

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    The 11' brakes on my 3B came off of an older wagon or a pickup. The only issue is using the right backing plate for whatever you are doing for a parking brake.
     
  14. Mar 28, 2016
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    You're right about the backing plate of course, but his question is basically will the backing plates from a model 25 bolt to a model 44. I personally haven't ever compared them so I don't know.
     
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