BOX the frame??? Yah or Nay

When you add a strap to the frame , do you weld it to the inside of the rail and if so is this done to the upper or lower rail or both (just trying to get a mental picture of this).

 

When I tried strapping my frame, I put it on the bottom of the "C" channel. I think the critical thing is to have it continuous from end to end. Cracks typically begin at the inside edge of the bottom of the frame and travel out and up. At least that's the way all of mine worked. I'm sure there are other variations on this method though.

 

hey guys,
all of you, i really appreciate all these great posts. arguing both sides ot the issue. i need a couple devils advocates...
still, i feel drawn to agree with the couple that were referring to our use of these jeeps being different from the designers of these back in the day. as i said earlier in the post, i beat this jeep up. not just to wreck it, but i'm usually the guy in our group that people say "wow, that trail/line is totally F'd, Wick, you go try it out first..." i don't mind being the test dummy. i like the challenge.

unless more posts come through convincing me otherwise. i believe i will intend on boxing the frame up completely, with added reinforcement. i want the frame stiff, strong, and rigid, in order to force additional flex out of the suspension. and i will try best to keep wait gain down to a minimum...

i do also agree with the post from jpflat2a; needing to relearn to drive... this makes sense to me. i will anticipate pulling wheels off the ground a little more than now, hard to believe though, coming from most my background driving various toyotas, then moving to my first jeep a few years ago-this cj5, it took me a while to get used to the tires leaving the ground every few feet. i definately got used to it the more it happens.


please, please keep the posts coming with ideas that work well with boxing it, tips to do so, ideas that work(ed) well, and tips on things to avoid. all will be appreciated.


thanks again to all of you and your posts. i've yet to pick up the frame, but have secured it. i will take pics of course, of all progress beginning to end, and keep you all posted. as i mentioned though, i am still a bit away. just wanting to get all my ideas lined up and a plan in order before it hits the building stages.

happy wheelin'

 

Good point Tim. Like I mentioned in my first post, there are just certain vehicles where I would rather have a C channel frame than a boxed frame. For my fairly stock Jeeps that are driven on the road mostly, with just some mild trail riding, the stock C channel frame does just fine. For my trail only rigs that are gonna be beat on constantly, I like to go with the later model Jeeps with a fully boxed frame. All of the later model Jeeps from around 77 or somewhere around there, all the way up through the brand new ones, have a fully boxed frame. To me, in such a small vehicle with the way the body is made on a Jeep, if you are in trails that are really gonna twist you up, it just puts too much stress on the body of the Jeep if the frame has all that flex to it. In those cases, I would rather have my suspension doing the twisting, or have a tire up in the air.

 

Never seen it on the inside of the rail. That's probably equivalent, but more work since you'd have to remove/replace the existing crossmembers to make the strapping continuous. Plus it's easier to work on the outside of the channel.

I'd say the lower rail first, like the CJ-6. The race cars had it top and bottom, continuous front to back.

 

I'm finally getting a mental picture of what the strapping is now. That sounds like it wouldn't be a bad idea to do whether the frame is boxed or not if you're gonna be beating on one very hard. Back last year we jumped a big rock pile in my cousin's trail rig, and it broke the frame right under the driver's side. His frame was fully boxed, factory 83 CJ, and as hard as we hit the ground it would have broken just about any stock frame, boxed or not. Beefing up the top and bottom of the frame would have helped prevent this somewhat..............maybe...........we did hit pretty hard. Our trail rigs take a serious beating everytime we go out, so this might be something I look into doing on this latest one I'm building. Now that I get the full picture of what you're talking about, it sounds like a great idea.

 

Good topic. I’ve been kicking this idea around also and find the posts here very informative. I hadn’t even heard of “strapping” until now.
But let me thow one more thing out there, gusseting.
One thing I’ve done with my frame is gusset it in the rear right where the rear springs mount, including the shackle mount. It really helped tighten up the loose feeling when feeding in throttle.
So, what if a frame is merely gusseted at stress points, like suspension mounts maybe even cross member mounts?

 

If someone has a picture that they could post of a frame or a section of a frame that has had this done to it I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Which technique are you reffering to? Strapping, boxing or gusseting?

 

I am reffering to straping

 

you were all very helpful, thank you very much.
i'm going to see about picking this frame up this weekend or next. then get the ball rolling on this project. not at all planning on doing a frame up restoration...but i know and everybody here knows that a project quickly becomes a series of projects...

my plans are as follows...
8) get the frame
8) box the hell out of it-i'm going for the solid/rigid/strength approach and let the suspension do the work for me, i am expecting to be able to stop ripping my body like spent beer can.
8) put the new suspension on it-i think i am going with a 4" lift, and may plan on moving the rear axle back a couple/few inches
8) mount my drive train-hopefully get a clocking plate for t-case and rotate that baby out of harms way. plus a new crossmember/mount that tucks up better-need that ground clearance!
8) custom and rear bumpers, including a nice spare tire mount in rear
8) a little body reconditioning (cracks, rips, tears in body near body mounts)
8) time and well, really budget permitting, i will build and tie into the frame, a killer new cage
8) then just slap that beat, banged, and scratched baby back on the new frame real quick (ya right!)
:driving: road test, then back on the trail?!?! i hope

and i will, OF COURSE, post some pics of the project, beginning, during and end results for all to see.

a special thanks to posimoto and mcgillacuddy for your help, comments, tips, etc. and pm's. i may be bugging the two of you during the project if i come across any snags.
cheers to you two

happy wheelin'

 

I think it's safe to say, we're all here to help and be helped by the combined experience of all the members. Good Luck and have fun doing it.

 

bottom line is...

CRACK KILLS!

 

The 2nd lift I did to my Jeep was the SOA. I know it gets a bad rap, but to be honest with you it's a great and less expensive way to get good ride quality, good flex and all-around better trail performance out of your rig since you said it'll be more of a trail rig. One thing though, if you do go this route I highly advise changing out your springs to either a '76 and up 2"F/2.5" rear set-up or a YJ F and R 2.5" set-up. Those old narrow '73 springs should probably take a trip to the scrapper. This will involve changing the spring hangers, but that's a pretty easy task with basic cut and weld skills.

One of the main reasons people don't like the SOA is what it does for your on-road manners. Your front driveline angle could be a problem when doing this much of a lift since most of the D30 pinion angles were pretty low back in the 70's. You can correct this with adjustable ball-joints and a very mild degree shim on the spring perch. I mean like 2 degree or less. I opted for the more time-consuming route of cutting off the outer C of the axle and rotating it. This kept my caster stock and allowed me to run my front driveline a little steeper. You'll have to engineer a way to get your caster set equal on both sides though. Fortunately for me my mechanical engineering buddy is more of a Jeep freak than I so he built a jig that worked beautifully.

Another must if you're going SOA is the shackle reversal. You'll gain a lot of your driveability back doing this. I used the MORE kit and I have to say it was probably one of the best investments I made while doing the SOA. Very nice kit too.

Just my 2 cents, but I hope it helps coming from someone that did the SOA on a rig that saw daily street use back in the day and had no issues at all.

 

Let me ask you this...is a SOA really that much cheaper than buying after-market springs?
The reason I ask is...by the time he tosses the springs off the 73, replaces them with the 76 style...changes all his spring hangers and shackles. Does a reverse shackle set up. Turns his axle to correct drivsaft angle and fix caster at the same time....etc, etc...is it really a bunch cheaper?

 

That's all the easy part. Dealing with the steering components seems to be the major part of a soa. It's also the part that seems to be the most butched. How about dealing with the spring wrap you usually get on the rear axle. The general concensus here is it ain't easy and it ain't cheap.

 

Ive been doing quite a bit of research on the SOA set up and it seems really involved. Alot of things to consider. Castor angles, slip yoke eliminator, CV shaft, cutting & welding spring perches, steering, blah blah blah. Seems to me that it would be easier on the wallet and a hell of alot simpler to just buy a lift kit. They do say that you'll get a lot more articulation and maybe a better ride but is it worth it. Sorry Wicked 4x4 for the subject change maybe I should start a new thread on the + or - on the SOA. Good luck on the build. I would go with the full on box frame also. Frames are just that....FRAMES they are meant to hold the main object in place. Suspension is supposed to move.

 

You don't really need to start a thread about the pros and cons of a SOA. That subject has been hammered to death on this forum. If you are interested in more info, do a search. There'll be plenty to read.