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Best narrow track Dana 30 iteration questions

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by 47v6, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. Nov 11, 2014
    47v6

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    Guys, I have 3 Dana 30 axles. They are all 40 1/2 or so from ctr to ctr on the top ball joint and 29 1/2 or so ctr to ctr on the spring perches.
    I have 2 that are disk and one that is drum. Of the 2 disk axles, one has welded shock mounts and a threaded mount for calipers and the other has neither. Neither have calipers, 1 has rusty spindles, neither have hubs or brake disks.

    The 2 disk axles do not have hubs, the drum one does. Will the hubs from the drum axle work with disk setup? Someone mentioned something about my GM disk setup from my existing Dana 25 working with a dana 30. Im pretty cheap and would really like to spend as little money as possible.

    The 2 disk axles have been used for parts and are incomplete and or the ball joints are frozen. The best one is the drum axle because it is complete as far as i can see. It is complete drum to drum. Haven't opened any of them up to look at gear sets but I am going to have the change gears to 5.38 anyway...unless they are good and i change out my rear dana 44 to a higher gear ratio.

    so, do i convert the drum to a disk set up (provided the dana 25 GM conversion will work) or use the disk setup with parts from the drum axle. Im sure you guys have some good ideas.

    thanks
     
  2. Nov 11, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    I'm a drum man.
    Keep the 11" brakes and use them.
    Disc are over rated in my opinion.
    (No water crossings in this part of the state)
    Install the correct differential case or locker, etc and 5.38s.
    Re-use what you can, replace anything else worn out.
    My 0.2 worth.
     
  3. Nov 11, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The discs from your 25 should be darn near a bolt on with the drum 30 using the 30's spindles. You may need to grind the knuckles some to clear the calipers. Not a huge deal but something to be aware of. Make sure the spindles on the drum 30 are in good shape. The spindles from the 25 are different and will not work. The 30 drum spindles should be the same dimensionally from the flange out so your bearings, seals, hubs, etc. should not be an issue.
     
  4. Nov 11, 2014
    47v6

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    This is what I wanted to hear.
    I do agree that disks are over rated. When I was rebuilding my Dana 25 I threw away my 9" brakes because i know better and was looking for a drum setup. Well i found that that was more difficult to find and much more expensive. I guess its because of the scarcity of the backer plates. I did install 11x2 drums on my first 2A and they were an amazing upgrade from the 9" heel toe adjuster brakes. This time I went with the GM conversion. Guess I'm going to take it off the 25 and transfer it all to the 30.
    Next question... Im sure the gears are not 5.38. I bet I will need a case and gear set. Where is a good purveyor and what brands should I steer clear of? I have seen the difference in price go way up for 5.38 as opposed to 3.73 or something numerically lower.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  5. Nov 11, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Dana Spicer never produced 5.38 FDR for the model 30 differentials.
    You will have to buy an aftermarket gear set if you want anything lower than 4.89 installed.
    No experience but ...Yukon has a good reputation.
     
  6. Nov 11, 2014
    47v6

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    Im not married to 5.38, its just what I have in my dana 44 rear. If i could get gear sets cheap enough I would not be opposed to changing out both ends. Never done it before, but whatever. Maybe change out the 44 to whatever is up front providing its not wrecked?
     
  7. Nov 12, 2014
    47v6

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    opened drum brake dana 30 case and the ratio is 3.54. Everything needs rebuilt. none of it is terrible, but ball joints are really stiff, all seals are rotted , etc.. Now is the time to rebuild. Do i regear to 5.38 up front or do i regear my 44 to 3.54? i am basically driving this thing around town, no rock crawling, have a sm420 and a 225 v6. I don't know that i need to have 5.38 gears. What are your opinions?
     
  8. Nov 12, 2014
    nwedgar

    nwedgar Now with TBI!

    Newnan, Georgia
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    For around town driving I think 3.54 is the better way to go, but I believe that also means a carrier change for the D44, the split is at 3.73 I think so anything with 3.73 and down needs a different carrier.
     
  9. Nov 12, 2014
    47v6

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    I will need a case for either that I do. There are some cheap gear sets out there. Motive being one of them. They are Chinese aren't they? They are half the price of Yukon or Richmond, etc.. anybody break them?
     
  10. Nov 12, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    That fact plus your previous indicated width and the drum brakes suggests this to be a this to be a 1976 axle.
    You can verify the build date as it is stamped upon the ring gear.

    Because you have a low geared transmission I highly suggest 3.73 or 3.54 FDR for your driving needs.
    You can possibly find a pair of good used Dana Spicer gear sets cheaper than a single set of new gears.
    Look at your local and national CL ads.
     
  11. Nov 12, 2014
    47v6

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    Stamped date says 1975. The pinion gear walked into the case at some point and ate it up pretty good. Pretty much everything is toast. The spindles are serviceable but not great. I was going to rebuild or replace everything anyway, so this is not unexpected.
     
  12. Nov 12, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    Yes that's interesting.
    From what I was told... Jeep stockpiled relatively few axle assemblies.
    In other words the axle was assembled less than 3 months before the jeep build date.
    That seems to imply this was D30 possibly from an early 1976 CJ.

    Anyway I suggest you pull the covers on the other D-30's to see what other good parts you may have to work with.
    You may be better off starting with one of the other axle housings if the differential and gears are intact.
     
  13. Nov 12, 2014
    fesser

    fesser Napa, CA 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I also am running the 225 with the SM420 (in a 45 GPW). I have 4.27 gears and 7.50-16 tires. I never have found the need for lower gearing than 1st in 4 low with this combo, but often wish I had lower rpms on the highway (no overdrive). If I were to build it again I would probably go with the 3.73's especially since you can probably get used complete axles already geared that way for not too much money.
     
  14. Nov 12, 2014
    47v6

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    Im going to tear into the other axles here in a bit to do this exact thing. The dana 25 really is fine on the road. zero wander, no wobble, predictable and not one problem, but the width. I just need an inch or two.
     
  15. Nov 12, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Another way to tell the '76 axle "should" be measure the spring pads. In '76 Jeep went to 2" wide springs in the front. Prior to that the springs were 1 3/4" wide.
     
  16. Nov 12, 2014
    47v6

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    looks like I have a 1975 drum, a 1978 disk and an 81 disk. I don't have any real experience with open knuckle axles. It looks like the axle shaft has a flange on the end that a cheesy seal mounts to. I "might" have a short and long shaft that hasn't had that rusted partially off.

    The spindles and hubs are different from the drum to disk. they do not interchange. The axles are the same with the exception of the 81 that has welded on shock mounts. I didnt look at the spring perch width.

    If I was to buy new spindles, do they generally come with the interior bearing installed? Do the inserts for the upper ball joint need adjusting when replacing the joint? I have 1 good carrier case with good spider gears in it. This case is not one that will work with the 5.38 I have in the rear. This is expected. Is water a good lubricant because one was full of it.:rofl:
     
  17. Nov 12, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    The "disk brake" type of spindles can be used with drum brake systems.
    But the "drum brake" type spindles will not fit disk brake systems.
    Got that ?
    Besides the obvious larger shoulder the only D-30 spindle difference involves the innermost wheel bearing.

    No but if your on a budget I have a decent pair of used inner spindle bearings that I can send you for shipping cost.
    I also have new spindle seals that I can sell you.

    Concerning what axle assembly to rebuild. Use the one with the best differential and gearset if possible.
    Also check the inner axle tubes for severe rust.

    Yes. You will need a special socket to fit the adjuster nut. I made my own.
    If you want them, I have 7 used ball joints for the cost of a flat rate shipping box.
     
  18. Nov 13, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The seal on the back of the spindle is different as well for the outer axle. Drum brake spindles have a pressed in seal that also requires the smaller drum brake outer axle. The disc brake outer axle uses a "V" type seal that stretches over the dust shield on the outer axle and rides on the inside of the spindle. The backside of the spindle inside the stepped area is a different diameter because of this.
    The disc brake stuff can be used on the drum brake spindles, but not with factory bearings/races. Best to use the disc brake spindles as they are stronger anyway.
     
  19. Nov 13, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Nicks right...
    I previously forgot to mention the drum and disk brake versions use different spindle to inner hub seals.

    Each spindle irrespective of disk / drum application requires sealing of two different areas.
    The outer axle shaft seal is where the axle shaft enters the spindle and the inner hub seal is where the hub fits over the spindle.

    Nick, what you refer to as the "v" type seal the locals in my local refer to as a "bellows" seal.

    IMHO If a jeep is going to see lots of "air" time the late disk brake type spindles should be seriously considered.
     
  20. Nov 13, 2014
    47v6

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    I was looking at the spindles yesterday and noticed this. Since I have 2 complete Disk axles, I may rebuild one of them when I get around to it. They need everything and that makes the cost fairly high. Hubs, disk, caliper, case and gears, ball joints, etc.. I could try and piece together used stuff and make it work, but I'm kind of over that. I could buy a working used one, but it would most likely need at this stuff anyway. I also like to rebuild stuff.

    So, It is important on a disk axle setup that the axle shafts have the flange on the outermost portion of the shaft to be intact for the crappy v seal that rides inside the axle tube. The reason I ask is that a couple axle shafts have this flange rusted away or close to it. Any way to machine this flange off and put a real seal in the outer axle tube? Im going to have to install new universals on the axle shafts anyway.

    These axles are junk by the way if you haven't noticed. Lest we forget, Free is expensive.
     
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