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Backfired, died

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by sparky, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Feb 26, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Yup. I think I got it now. :)
     
  2. Feb 26, 2006
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Yep Steve has it right. You can also clean the bottom aluminum surface the same way. The gears may mesh fine but make sure there are no burrs on the edges. A knife sharpening (wet stone) stone will work fine in a pinch to remove the burrs on the edge of the gears.
     
  3. Feb 26, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Thanks Mcruff.
     
  4. Mar 4, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Continuing on with my saga.

    I got a new gear from Warloch. It's on the distributor now.

    I put the oil pan back on.

    I put the oil pump back in, forgot to prime it, doh! Haven't tried to start it yet though, I'm missing one of the bolts that hold the pump cover in place.

    What I did: I did as Mcruff and w3srl suggested. Then I went to Autozone and bought some thicker gasket material, not like cork, but not paper thin like the stock stuff was. I can't recall and can't find the packaging but it's rubberized fiber material maybe 1/32" or 1/16". The oil pump now spins freely. From the looks of the cover I don't think I could've removed enough with the emory cloth to stop the drag. But I did deburr it as suggested.

    More later after I get my bolt. :rofl:
     
  5. Mar 4, 2006
    tommy b

    tommy b Member

    Golden, Colorado
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    Oct 23, 2005
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    Did you put this thicker gasket between the oil pump gears and cover? If so, from past experience, I can tell you this is a bad deal. What happens is the oil short circuits the pump gears and you get no oil pressure because the pump's not pumping, the oil's going around the end of the gears. I didn't find out until I had the engine together and fired it up. :rofl: BTDT.

    tommy b
     
  6. Mar 4, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I'd think if I had like .5" of gasket or something the oil might bypass the gears I couldn't turn it with a screwdriver before, this just bought me enough space that I'm not scraping Al off the cover on the end with the gears...

    So I should move it between the timing cover and spacer then is what you're saying? :? <sigh> Just doesn't seem like there's enough space there to worry about.
     
  7. Mar 4, 2006
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    I hope you mean .050".... 1/2" is a bunch.....:)
    edit- Just giving you a hard time Sparky..
    I'm surprised, tho, that a new oil pump would need any kind of work to make it, well, work...
     
  8. Mar 4, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    that's what I meant. .5" I know that's a bunch. I maybe put 1/16" in there to space it out.

    I can still move it to the top of the spacer and, well, hope that the stock gasket is ok for the bottom 'cuz otherwise I have some printer paper. :D
     
  9. Mar 4, 2006
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    About .004-.005" is all you need for clearance. To give you an idea about this thickness a human hair is roughly .003". Patrick is a redhead so his will be about 15% thicker.:D
     
  10. Mar 4, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I work with microscopes, I'm familiar with very small thicknesses.

    The danged gears were chewing the cover up. It was an uneven wear pattern too. Wasn't just like there was some burr chewing up the cover. It was wearing more on one side. I still have the replacement gastket that came with the kit but I can put it back in there and see. All I know is that now the oil pump spins freely whereas before it wouldn't and ate my distributor gear. :(

    As for the redhead comment, I represent that remark.
     
  11. Mar 4, 2006
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Mustache hair???
     
  12. Mar 4, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    moustache hair and just cuz I shave my head doesn't mean I have less of a temper. R)
     
  13. Mar 5, 2006
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Sparky if you have .062"(1/16) you'll be lucky if that thing makes 20 psi of pressure cold, down to 5psi warm. I think the factory gasket was about .006" or so. I know this is disgusting but I don't want to see you make things worse from to low of oil pressure. If I was only closer!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. Mar 5, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Ok, then what's a guy to do? I can't run it the way it was...

    I'm out of ideas and options here. :rofl:
     
  15. Mar 5, 2006
    jhuey

    jhuey Michigan Jeeper!

    Indian River...
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    On the gear pump clearance, rotor to cover should be .003" or less. I set to .002". Any more and there will be internal leakage and will effect pressure. TA performance had cover gaskets in incremental thicknesses to achieve proper clearance.
     
  16. Mar 5, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Has or had? I need the Jeep to be up and running, SOON.

    How do I know what thickness to buy?

    Has no one else had this issue with the Melling High Volume oil pump or am I just "blessed"?

    I'm sorry guys but this is frustrating me to no end. I can't figure a way to fix this issue with what I have at my disposal. :(

    On top of it all now the pump cover is pretty severely scored so I'm stuck there too. If what you guys are saying is true then I'm really SOL because the cover won't have the right clearance no matter what I do.
     
  17. Mar 5, 2006
    jhuey

    jhuey Michigan Jeeper!

    Indian River...
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    I checked their web site and didn't see the kit , as you know that doesn't always mean they don't have it. All oil pumps should be checked, but it seems the Buick pumps we have need to be dialed in. What is the protrusion of the gears out of the housing? You said that you were rubbing the cover so, take that measurement (straight edge across gears to housing, and feeler gage) and add a gasket (measure the gasket) that will give you necessary running clearance plus commpression. I would use a paper/garlock material (easy to get), the only thing is I don't know the compression amount so you will might have to set it up to the best case dimension and bolt it together and see if it spins freely, lets say you need .007 to maintain .002 to .003 and the nearest gasket materal is .0085, that might work. Make sure you have a mechanical oil pressure gage hooked up when you first start the engine.
     
  18. Mar 5, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Thanks jhuey, at least that gives me someplace to start. Never knew that the oil pumps were that hard to set up. Woulda stuck with the stock one that was in there had I known this. :oops:
     
  19. Mar 5, 2006
    Old Bill

    Old Bill Aggressively passive....

    Really Southern...
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    Sparky, I'll defer to the other guys on this, so take it with a slight suspicion, but you can measure the clearance with a straight edge and feeler gauge. With the gouges on the cover, can you hone it down with the sandpaper/glass trick, or are they really deep? As far as various thickness gaskets go, I wonder if brass sheet would get the job done with some Permatex aviation sealer? The brass is available in various thicknesses, only trouble is in cutting it. (Heavy scissors will cut brass, but may distort it.)

    Again, this is just me brainstorming, I would wait for someone to chime in and say that it's a rational idea....

    Good luck to you.
     
  20. Mar 5, 2006
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

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    The gouges are pretty deep. Deep enough that my oil pump inhibited my distributor from turning. Shopping for a new one now.
     
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