anti-wrap/traction bars

Well, I tried to search for these and it could be that some are buried in the build threads but didn't find any. I'm in the process of installing Holbrooks on my B and I know spring wrap is going to be a problem. With my old Rancho springs, I was using and extra pair of large Monroe Magnum shocks on the rear axle that were angled back as far as was practical to moderate wheel hop. It worked reasonably well except in really deep snow. With the more flexy springs, I don't think it is going to be an effective option.

So what types/designs are folks using? How heavy of joints? Photos will be much appreciated.

 

Spring under or over? With Spring under the potential for wrap is much less with a full second leaf military wrap as the Holbrooks use............but with that torque monster SBC your talking about using that may not be the case...........
Yet to see an effective way to do a anti-wrap bar be it single or double that allows the type of articulation and movement in the suspension for which the springs were purchased for...............up front some use a shackle, I have seen sliding shackles , but do to the need to keep it free to move the effect still seems limited............John ( Posi) has one on his rig "Spring Over" maybe he will chime in.

 

Spring under. My thinking is a single bar, probably on the short side, with a shackle at the frame mount. That mount would be rotational only at the frame but would use a long travel heim joint on the bar end-along with heim joints on the axle. I think that would allow sufficient angular movement of the axle as to not sacrifice the flex of the springs but still prevent the pinion from nosing up. Snaking the bar through there and how to mount the frame end is likely going to be a bit of a head scratcher. I would also prefer to use aluminum for this if possible.

 

John ,

The Bar is probably going to have to be mounted in the same forward dimension location , where the solid mount for your spring is to keep the axle and traction bar in the same moment or arch.........Beings the rear mount is welded a joint such as a high angle "Johnny type Joint" that can see 40 degrees may be needed at both ends.

I did some work a while back using a sliding type box shackle mounted forward that would mount horizontally and pivot to follow the axle motion.........on paper seemed to be a better mouse trap but never put one on anything.

 

I did built one couple years back when i was still on a leaf spring suspension. Was around my first projet. I did use a leaf bushing and a shakkle fitted on my crossmember. I could only have change the bushing to a simple rod end. I dont have a picture at the axle, but i just put the 1" x 1" tubing between two plate welded to the frame.

 

But with a 4 link, the axle fore-aft movement is a LOT less and I don't think that will work with springs that can move back an inch or two. I did think about that and also about coming off the cross member like Johnnyboy's but it absolutely can not hang down like that. And while the mechanics of keeping the frame mount the same distance from the axle as the frame spring hanger would be most desirable, with a shackle system you should have some leeway with the positioning.

I just got done dropping the D44 front housing off at my currently favored local 4x4 shop for the ARB install. If I'd had a set of setup bearings for the ARB carrier, I would have done it but not worth the trouble for a likely one time deal. I usually manage to screw up at least one cone pressing those on and off a half dozen times to to get the shim pack right on an all new set of gears without the setup bearings. Now if I can find someone to bend me up some 1/2x1 3/4 inside square U-bolts for the flip. Used to have a trailer shop that could do them but he bagged last year. Don't know who ended up with the press and dies.

 

I was across the street, the future husband of my neighbors daughter is doing a 4 link on his '98. 44 front and 14 bolt rear?
Really? You are still running a 4 cyl.
He ordered his parts from a place called Barnes or something like that. They look like they are well made, certainly heavier than a stock system.

 

Trying to use a link or cross link will not give you the movement the leaf spring & shackles desire. The 4-Links travel in an arc mostly vertical although under droop they will try to rear steer , while the leaf springs under droop or compression will cycle through being flatter and longer or shorter and arched...........In either case whether or not the bar is mounted in the same moment as the fixed end of the spring or not it will still have the effect of binding up the suspension especially on articulation when one side is up and the other down.............on flat ground it will work better, but still tries to engage an opposite force on axle rotation than the springs want to travel. in which case can and will effect squat or anti-squat........Shackle starting position is also important.......Seen a typical Anti-wrap bar put in motion on a 3-D Cad a while back................its all about compromises!

 

I understand how leaf springs length changes under compression. I just wanted to suggest the Barnes site as a source of parts.
I hope he is going for coils but there are no coils there yet.
He's a young'un, anymore I just sit in the sun with a cocktail and watch him try to figure it out.
I tried to explain to him about pinion angles and caster tonight. Got the deer in the headlights look.

 

For the time being I'm just living with the axle wrap. It isn't horrible and I think my springs can handle it. I had a bar that attached via a shackle to the rear of my 1/4" skid plate, but it would bind. As someone mentioned earlier, anything you do will be a compromise. I may try building one again and I think the front end of the bar needs to connect at the same point as the main eye mount of the spring. However, as soon as you use a shackle to allow for front to back movement you run into a little trouble. The end of the shackle that the anti wrap bar connects to needs to be in line with the main eye bolt. As soon as the spring begins to lengthen or shorten you loose that alignment. You can minimize that by using relatively flat springs.

 

I have been following this post with interest and have a question I hope one of you can answer for me. Why wouldn't a simple torque reaction spring remedy John's problem. Since we a playing with 70+ year old technology, why not use what the original designers of our toys used to prevent this very problem in the front axle? Every MB and GPW used a torque reaction spring mounted in conjunction to the left front spring.