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Another Dauntless Clutch Issue

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by rejeep, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Aug 18, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    After searching, reading, and thinking I’ve come to the conclusion I also have a “Dauntless clutch issue!”

    After the successfull oil filter swap I started bleeding the hydraulics and got a good clutch pedal. Problem is clutch would not disengage.. I don’t think I’m getting enough travel on the clutch fork. Back side of the fork is hitting the bellhousings before any clutch action happens.

    I tired a longer clutch rod on the hyd. salve, made peldal height adjustments with little success.

    Before I go tear the transmission out and dig deeper into the bellhousing, any other thoughts on an external adjustment? I’m thinking I have the wrong fork in there giving me restricted travel to engage the clutch..

    Setup is Buick 225, skylark bellhousing to an adapted T176. Used a Luk clutch kit and the fork arm from the Novak hyd. clutch conversion. (I know :rolleyes:)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Aug 18, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    The dauntless flywheel is thicker than others, pushes the clutch assembly back towards the transmission. Start there and see where it leads.
     
    heavychevy likes this.
  3. Aug 18, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    Yeah thought about that... I’m prob only that far off. Just don’t know if I can measure anything while in place or ???
    Possibly an adjustable height ball stud?

    Sucks I wanted to fire this thing and now I’m breaking it down...
     
  4. Aug 18, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Sorry, Been there. My problem was the thickness of the flywheel pushed the clutch hub onto the very back to the transmission input splines, locking it and not allowing free play. I machined the friction disk hub and fixed the problem.
     
  5. Aug 18, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
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    Don’t know if I’m that compact in there... just not getting enough throw before fork bottoms out.
     
  6. Aug 18, 2018
    wasillashack

    wasillashack Member

    Wasilla, Alaska
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    If you are out of travel with the clutch fork, with the fork contacting the bell housing, 1. you need a different fork, 2. you need an adjustable height pivot ball, 3. you need a longer/taller throw out bearing. All of which will probably require disassembly. Good luck.
     
  7. Aug 19, 2018
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2021 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    Check the length if the input housing, my set up the bearing retainer was hitting the hub on the disk preventing disengagement. It appeared that my release arm wasn’t moving far enough it was. Trimmed the housing a little and it worked.
     
  8. Aug 19, 2018
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    I used longer ball stud.
    [​IMG]
    With longer ball stud:
    [​IMG]
    With original ball stud:
    [​IMG]
    Longer stud with hydraulic slave cylinder:
    [​IMG]
     
    rejeep likes this.
  9. Aug 19, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Nice pics. I think the pull style slave is a better option than the Novak push because of the proximity to the rear dump manifold on the 225. Mine gets really hot. That braket you made is nice.
     
  10. Aug 19, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    All about the proper Pedal ratio , Hydraulics , bore sizes , volume / oil being pushed which equals travel............Average bore size at the hydro clutch master is about 13/16 or 7/8" then using a 3/4" slave to increase travel...........Novak has the best slave cause it has about 2" of travel............you should also get a Novak adjustable length throughout bearing collar....this will help in shortening or lengthening linkage length..inside the housing.

    Ratio changes at the clutch fork as it enters the bell housing to 2:1.........so that means whatever travel you have outside the housing just got cut in half once inside..........1" equals 1/2".........an average pressure plate needs about .400 - .500" of travel to fully release........don't forget you still need to add in some free play which is all part of the travel equation..............with all the Items mentioned above in hand you can make it work.....
     
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  11. Aug 19, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    That’s “clutch”.
    Where do you get the pull clutch?
    Might redo the whole system now that it’s all torn down...

    Have the Novak slave already... going to order up the balance today...

    Also noticed the pinion depth in my starter is constantly engaged... this who fiasco might have been a blessing is disguise...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  12. Aug 19, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Not sure if I posted the info previously or not... but many slightly different release bearing carriers are available.
    I can upload pics if you wanna see the differences.
    And I have several NOS USA release bearings available if you need one.
    If proper release fork goes all the way to rear of bellhouse opening; then you need a thicker / taller release bearing carrier assembly.

    Show us pics of what you have to work with after you tear into it.
     
  13. Aug 19, 2018
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    How can this be? Did someone replace the ring gear on the flywheel and not space it properly?
     
  14. Aug 19, 2018
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

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    Thanks, it was actually easy & inexpensive to make.
     
  15. Aug 19, 2018
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  16. Aug 19, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Might have jumped the gun on this...
    R&R made it sit properly...

    Ordering up the Novak suite of adjustable products.

    Debating the pull style slave..
     
  17. Aug 19, 2018
    Jamco6000

    Jamco6000 Member

    Baton Rouge, LA
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    We had the same issue. Ordered Part #: 3855G from Novak. Removed the transmission and used a die grinder on the transmission adapter to give me enough room to access the pivot with an Allen wrench. Put everything back together and adjusted until everything was positioned properly.
     
  18. Aug 20, 2018
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Couple of pictures as to what I’m dealing with...

    I wasn’t getting any clutch engagement due to the fork hitting the back of the housing window. Made a longer pushrod and things just got worse.
    Despite kicking myself and cursing, gearbox removal is rather simple... floors and seat is come out and transmission gets lifted up rather than down.
    Tranny out and throwout bearing proved evidence of perhaps something else. I think constant pushing on the fork the input shaft acted as a wedge and I had enough force to bend the back... thought? There appears to be no surface wear on either clutch pressure plate or bearing...


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Aug 20, 2018
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Unsure how it got bent but... because your back to addressing the throw-out bearing I'll post this picture just for reference.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Aug 20, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Looks like an Aetna brand bearing.
    Oz .....you have a very nice looking clutch linkage
     

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