1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Amc 150 To T90

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Jrobz23, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Jun 29, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    I know most folks would say put a V6/V8 if you're gonna do all this work, but just wondering if anyone has done this and what this would look like. I'm at that junction where the FHead is toast and out, and debating what to put back in. I have the vehicle steering setup for I4 (Herms Ford Sag kit) and my propane kit is 1BBL, so other 4CYLs are appealing (not big on Fords though). Also debating a swap to hydraulic clutch and swing pedals. I've always been a fan of AMC motors, so digging into what my options are. These motors seem like solid mills and basically given away.

    Would this be correct?

    T90 -> SBC adapter (Novak G9N) -> 80s 2.8 S10 bell -> AMC150

    If so, this also opens up maybe a SM465 or some such later on.

    Thanks guys
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  2. Jun 29, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    My thinking on the AMC150:

    Better power than FHead (net and more usable curves overall)
    5 Main bearing motor
    Better aftermarket than FHead
    Cheaper than the FHead (the later flavors tend to be actually given away)
    Better oiling than FHead
    Lighter than the FHead?
    Enables hydraulic clutch
     
  3. Jun 29, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,871
    Speaking in total generalities here. Usually for the price of an adapter alone you could go with a GM product and find a t90 to GM adapter for a long shaft t90 for free. If you were to stumble across an adapter that could utilize a newer 4 cylinder then you may be on to something. Depending on your location, most 4 cylinders simply don't have enough power to be a driver in today's traffic.
     
  4. Jun 29, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    The Chevy 2.2OHV is a solid motor and, I think, would use the same bell as the AMC150. Sadly, all the Quad4s (and the Ecotec) have a unique bell, and would require a larger propane setup (2BBL at least). If I was swapping propane setups, I'd prolly just opt for a GM4.3 or Dodge3.9 (only cuz I have a Dodge NP435 with BH in my garage already).
     
  5. Jun 29, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Another advantage of the AMC 150 is native fuel injection, either TBI or multiport. No compelling advantage to propane over EFI IMO.

    There is an article about swapping a SM420 into a Wrangler here Swapping a SM420 into a Wrangler - I would think you could use the GM-adapted T-90 in place of the SM420. Both should look like a GM transmission to that engine and bell.

    As Daryl mentioned, the T-90 GM adapters come up on the used market pretty often, or maybe for free. Likely you could get the parts together without a big investment. Once you have the pieces on the shop floor, you can put them together, test for clutch function and such, and measure to go in. I expect the main issue will be driveshaft and front axle housing clearance. You'll have to work that out.

    If you really want a 4-cylinder, the Mercruiser / GM Industrial 3.0L has been put into quite a few Jeeps. That's been discussed quite a lot on these boards. Likely not as cheap as the AMC, but said to be available from forklifts and boats. The forklift engines are frequently powered by LPG, so there may be no need to convert.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    Jrobz23 likes this.
  6. Jun 29, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Very nice find! TY! So the S10 2.8V6 bell does bridge that gap with the mods he lays out.

    My Jeep is/was already converted to propane using a "1 barrel" setup on the FHead, so more modern motors in that upper 1BBL ish power range (100ish HP) are what I'm looking into. If I went too high a HP, I'd have to go with a bigger propane setup than I already have. So I'm in this bracket where I'm digging through motors to see which one adds some power, but not too much, and brings some quality of life allowances as well. I don't wanna get too new and have to mess with DIS, but don't wanna stay too old and not have much of any power or QoL gain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  7. Jun 29, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Two other 2.2L you might consider. The 151 GM/Pontiac "Iron Duke" has been used in lots of cars and even in the CJ-5. The 153 Chevy II engine is the smaller bore version of the Mercruiser 3.0L. The 153 has been done a lot, and is a very conventional design (2/3 of a 230 Chevy six). Both are Chevy bell pattern, as I recall.
     
    Jrobz23 likes this.
  8. Jun 30, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    I got a soft spot for the 'Duke. I like GM 4CYLS in general. My buddy's dad loves Dukes. Been running nothing but 'em for decades lol. The AMC 150 would be nice too.

    I gotta dig into accessory placements. Front drivers side has to be clear for my steering gear and rod. Rear driver and passenger sides need to be decent clear for the steering and drive shafts.

    Thanks again for the info! Good stuff.
     
  9. Jul 1, 2018
    Welderr

    Welderr Member

    NW New Jersey
    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    82
    I commute in a 2002 S-10 with a heavy cap on the back carrying a couple hundred pounds of tools in it. It has the Vortec 2.2 in it. I love it no problem what so ever keeping up with traffic, I travel 42 miles one way with lots of steep grades, I do lose some power on the hills with the A/C on. I am seriously considering a Ford 2.3 Pinto , actually a Ranger engine backed by a T18 I have out in the shop and most likely a Weber carb. I work on complicated mechanical things all week at work and want my leisure time simple. I inherited Dad's CJ it was just the way he bought it, it has a half completed V6 swap started now which I haven't ever heard run it hasn't moved under it's own power in about 35 years, we had a commando for years with a 225 in it and it was a great truck but it was totally worn out from plowing it's whole life, so I am a V6 fan but the 4 cyl is very attractive to me at this point in life. The KISS mantra is pretty true the more complicated things get the longer they take . I haven't started on this yet till I have a clear shot of shop time to complete it I'm just collecting parts at this point. T J
     
    Rich M. and Jrobz23 like this.
  10. Jul 9, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Thanks for the feedback guys!

    Somewhat firm-ish requirements of my motor choice:

    Must have a distributor. Access to vac dist, a plus. No DIS.
    Must be easily swappable back to 'carb' or have come OEM with one (the motor will be propane as the chassis already is setup for this and I do not like EFI) - prefer a 1BBL OEM intake setup if possible
    Must be somewhere in the ~90-120 HP range.
    No timing belts. Gear or chain only.
    5 Main bearing (or piston +1 lol) motor strongly preferred.
    Must have come in RWD mounted formats

    The above rule set does limit the choices to mostly a later Duke (and some 2.X motors) or AMC150. I could be quite pleased with any of those I think. All three are roughly 50% increase in power, modern oiling, lighter, chain driven, and dirt cheap.

    The AMC150 should put my '57 close to power/weight ratio as an I6 equipped Wrangler.

    Does the Duke have the starter on the passenger side? I'm pretty sure the AMC150 does.
     
  11. Jul 9, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    I expect 4-cylinder engines with 3 main bearings no longer exist. The 153 Chevy has 5 main bearings. 230 Chevy inline 6 has 7 bearings. The old Blue Flame Chevy 235 inline 6 had 4, but that's not in the running. May be hard to find a 153 though. Pretty sure the 2000 or 2300 Lima Fords have 5 mains too. I believe the 3-bearing (for inline 4s) or 4 bearings (for inline 6s) pretty much disappeared when the industry switched over from forged steel (like the 235 has) to cast iron cranks for commodity engines almost exclusively. All these engines we discussed will have cast iron crankshafts and 5 main bearings, AFAIK.
     
  12. Jul 9, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Never knew why they switched like that. That would make sense.

    Packaging is a big deal in these old short noses. I do plan on swapping to a later grill. I've been debating it since swapping steering to the Ford sag setup. It would be neat to be able to use a 4.0L/I6 fan shroud on either motor. Specially the 150 would look strangely stock in there lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  13. Jul 9, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    I haven't dug fully into the Duke yet, since I think that one is a little easier on parts.

    Looks like an AMC150 to T90 looks something like this:

    85-89 GM RWD 60deg bell (S10 or Blazer etc)
    Novak kit C1
    Clutch disc with 1-1/8th 10 spline
    Novak RAV6 release arm
    Novak adjustable pivot and release bearings
    Mean Green 3212 starter?


    One sneaky benefit for this setup is the smaller bell. On one hand it seems annoying to deal with tracking down harder parts but it might actually pan out better due to MC clearness on driver's side. I have a dual MC so it's a little cramped over there already. I had to do some "clearencing" even on the FHead to fit it.

    105HP NET, not gross, sounds like a massive improvement over the FHead without having to re-architect most of my setup.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  14. Jul 9, 2018
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,137
    I had a YJ with an amc 150. It never gave me problems but it left a lot to be desired. It had 4.11’s, 31 inch tires and barely kept up with traffic.
     
    AtomicYJ likes this.
  15. Jul 9, 2018
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    596
    I like the Chev 153 (aka 2.5L in boats)- have several of them. But Tim's suggestion of an AMC 150 with FI has merit.

    One really nice thing about the 153 is the standard Chevy bellhousing pattern. Easily put a 4 speed (SM420, 465 or T18) behind the 153 for similar cost overall as compared to adapting the 150 to a T90.

    The 153 has 90hp stock but responds readily to some basic improvements like shaving the head and decking the block. They tend to get excellent mileage and are stout. I have a stroked 153 that was built for midget racers (I think) that probably puts out who knows how much HP.

    The 153 comes in the 69-70 postal jeeps in addition to boats and forklifts.
     
  16. Jul 9, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    I think I would move to a 465 as part of a fiberglass tub (I have one that I might end up hanging on to) and swing pedal swap. One nice thing about either the 150 or 151 (or 153) is the ability to run a 465 down the road.
     
  17. Jul 9, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    I know they won no drag races, but my gut says 1000lb lighter vehicle with 5.38s will be much more peppy than that. Also, I'm looking for modest improvement over the FHead. If you live where traffic exists, unless it's on foot, the FHead had little hope of keeping up lol
     
  18. Nov 13, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Back on this. I am leaning towards the AMC150. Power to weight ratio should be very similar to a 4.0L YJ (roughly 2/3s the power and 2/3s the weight) with 5.38 gears.

    Two main reasons are - my propane setup will bolt on and my love for AMC inlines.

    Due to radiator interference of the Ford Saginaw swap, I'm moving to a later CJ grill anyway. I will likely try to use a I6 shroud with my grill on the I4. Be a very clean neat look if it all matches up well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  19. Nov 30, 2018
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Question for you guys, did the 84-86 Jeep manuals still have a Ford style face setup like they did in the 70s? If so, would it be possible to use the stock bell-housing and mate it to a 70s 3 or 4 speed Jeep trans? I have an extra set of Spicer18 gears.
     
New Posts