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Herms Manual Steering Upgrade

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by stinsonj, May 24, 2011.

  1. May 24, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Has anyone installed Herms (the overdrive guy) reverse rotation manual steering upgrade? My stock ross system is so sloppy, its scary, and i have a winch mounted between the frame rails behind the bumper so there is no room for a saginaw box. Im about to order his kit, but wanted to hear some opinions on how much of an improvement it is. I would go power steering, but its nearly impossible to find the correct pulleys and what not for my 2.3L pinto engine. Oh, its going into a 1953 CJ3A..
     
  2. May 24, 2011
    Grandpa Jeep

    Grandpa Jeep Member

    Peyton, CO
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
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    169
    Got any pictures of this setup? I had the same problem, only I couldn't use Herm's setup either as it would have interfered with the PTO driveshaft for my winch. I used a Scout II power steering gearbox which mounts outside the frame. I had the 2.3 pump, but couldn't use it either because it would have interfered with the frame and the power steering gearbox. What I did was mount a GM pump where the alternator was and I moved the alternator to the other side. It works great! I'll see if I can post some pictures.
     
  3. May 24, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,238
    He has a bunch of pics on his sight. I like alot of what Herm does, but not enamored with this setup. I prefer to just do the saginaw swap. I understand if you need to change it due to the PTO, but many of us are running electric winches with the standard Saginaw swap.

    http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/id120.htm for Herms pics
     
  4. May 24, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    12,122
    So why not go manual Saginaw manual steering? It's a good upgrade to the Ross system and down the road if you do find the parts for your 2.3 it's an easy swap...

    Fwiw I'm running Saginaw power with a Koenig pto winch so it's certainly possible
     
  5. May 25, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    53
    [​IMG]The way I installed my winch makes it impossible to install a saginaw box.. Anyway, to keep from tearing out all the winch work i did, i decided to go with herms set up. I really cant see how the saginaw box would be any better than Herms set up. However, i would love to hear from someone that actually runs his manual set-up, even though mine is already on the way so theres no turning back now!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  6. May 25, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    12,122
    Fewer clearance issues in the engine compartment and fewer angle and clearance issues with the drag link off the top of my head. In your case I can see how herms setup might be attractive. I'd suggest doing a search as the issues and advantages have been posted over and over again in the past.
     
  7. May 26, 2011
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Nov 27, 2006
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    2,793
    If that isn't a pto winch, you could always relocate it.
    If it is, then replacing with an electric would help in clearing up room for the steering.
     
  8. May 26, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    53
    Its electric, and would be fairly easy to relocate, i just didnt want to tear out the work i already did, even though it doesnt look like i did that much. I have found a lot of info on Herms power steering set-up, but nothing on using a manual box. Mine is on the way so maybe ill have to do a review once everything is installed
     
  9. May 27, 2011
    RVSwisher

    RVSwisher Member

    Rochester, MN
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    129
    Keep us informed and your throughts of the final product. I have been thinking of using this same kit on my 3B. I don't want to change my steering column but want improved steering.
     
  10. May 28, 2011
    fdpwr2a

    fdpwr2a New Member

    NWMO
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
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    46
    I am currently working on a power steering setup I could not use a reverse rotation box because I am running a I-6 ford motor and the box would not fit between the motor and frame. I am running a pto winch also. I took the reverse rotation box top and installed it in an older ford box with the long drop stem. With that I am able to get it along the frame and motor. I have the power steering box installed but that is about it so far but I think it will work!! HTH fdpwr2a
     
  11. May 29, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Sep 23, 2002
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    Another thought might be to use a box like a scout Saginaw box that mounts outside the frame. While not as clean looking it's certainly very functional and frees up a bunch of space immune engine bay
     
  12. May 30, 2011
    windyhill

    windyhill Go

    PA
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    Did you call Herm? He's had a couple diff. versions and some good ideas. I'm in the process of running his power steering kit with a Ramsey PTO winch and a v6 in a '59 cj6.
     
  13. May 31, 2011
    pilebuck

    pilebuck Member

    western WA.
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    Apr 28, 2008
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    239
    When i did my saganaw conversion and called him he downed the saginaw and really wasnt very helpful with anything he didnt sell i went with the saganaw my way and it is power and one handed driving there are many ways to skin a cat.Lots of good information on this site good luck whatever you chose .
     
  14. May 31, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    53
    Ya i called him, and he explained the installation pretty well, but even Herm himself hasnt driven a jeep with his manual steering upgrade. I went with manual because its more simple, more reliable, and way easier for my application (finding the right pulleys/brackets for my 2.3L would have been a pain in the a$$). All the parts to do the conversion are on the way, and ill try and do a review once its all complete.
     
  15. Jun 1, 2011
    andy howell

    andy howell Member

    Thomastown...
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    Oct 25, 2008
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    i don't have a lot of use for herm, all i ever got was the run around, always some excuse. but any way, the question begs- if you want to keep manual steering for what ever reason, why not repair the stock ross set up? i have had saganaw & completely rebuilt ross boxes, to include tie rod ends, bell crank & drag link & i couldn't see a whole lot of difference. a few more options with lock to lock with different saganaw boxes. now my jeeps were stockers without heavy fat tires & such, but if i wanted to keep manual steering i sure would want a rebuilt ross instead of what herm sells. just my $.02 worth. i think i even have a parts list here someplace of all the parts i used on the last steering rebuild & the vendors that furnished them for the m38 i did.
    andy
     
  16. Jun 2, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    You seem to be one of the few that is content with Ross set up. I got all the parts yesterday and have begun installation so we will see how much better this will be over stock.
     
  17. Jun 4, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    I started the steering conversion yesterday, and here is what i have found out so far:

    - The welds on the bracket are crap, so instead of bolting the bracket to the frame, i think im going to just weld it in place.
    - The steering column U-joint is not pre-drilled for a pin, and its really difficult to weld onto the shaft because the outer steering tube gets in the way. So I welded it the best i could (after grinding down the inner shaft so that it would fit), then drilled a hole through the u-joint and inner shaft, and ran a bolt through. I welded the bolt in place cause the last thing i want is for that bolt to come out and my crap welds to break going down the road.

    Tonight, im going to finish the steering column by bolting the supplied bearing to the floor board. Then, ill continue to remove all the old steering components. I figure it will take me about 3 more days of working a couple of hours each night to finish everything. Working 7 12's definitely puts a hamper on my jeep building time :(
     
  18. Jun 4, 2011
    windyhill

    windyhill Go

    PA
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    Have delt with Herm many times and he is always willing to help and a great source for parts and knowledge. He is a one man show so sometimes he's a bit hard to get a hold of but a great guy. Steering swaps have there place and are a good upgrade but a stock ross setup when rebuilt and in good shape can be fine as well. I have a stock '67 with a:v6: and am very happy with how it handles.
     
  19. Jun 6, 2011
    stinsonj

    stinsonj Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
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    53
    Problems so far:

    - The outlet for the stock radiator is directly in the way of the steering box. Going to need to replace the radiator with one that has an outlet on the passenger side. This is a big headache and extra expense i wasnt figuring when ordering this kit
    - The instructions that come with the kit are very undescriptive. If anyone does this swap, be sure and cut the stock steering column so that the U-joint ends up being as close to the firewall as possible. If the column sticks too far down past the floor board, the angle will be too great for the U-joint to work. This would have been a nice addition to the directions and would have prevented a lot of extra work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  20. Jun 6, 2011
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Jul 30, 2003
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    take the radiator out and have the lower neck moved to the other side, simple job.
     
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