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Newbie Help With Soft Tops and Doors?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by CruiserStuff, May 18, 2010.

  1. Dec 20, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Gotcha on the differences between the earlier 2's and 3's versus the 5's and 6's.

    From what I can tell from the installation instructions I printed out (link above), the CJ2A is the only one that attaches with turn buttons. The rest have the sewn in rope that slides into a channel.

    I'll be taking some detailed pics of doors, etc, today and will post for your opinions.

    From the pics/drawings in the installation instructions, it looks like the Kayline doors for the CJ5 has snaps going down the lower part of the hinge side (which goes pretty much straight up and down), while the doors for the 2's and 3's have a more angled edge at the hinge and only have one snap at the bottom. If that's as clear as mud, you'll see what I mean when I post pics.

    Thanks guys~
     
  2. Dec 20, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    How 'bout some help with doors?

    Based on my research, this door goes with the CJ2's, and 3's because of the angled edge (bottom, latch side):

    [​IMG]

    And this one would fit early CJ5's because of the curved edge:

    [​IMG]

    Am I correct or am I missing something?
     
  3. Dec 20, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I think that looks close. My doors (not Kayline - 2 STC for 3As and the 2A I have is in so, so shape) have the long (90% of the length) rib for it to slide in with 1 or 2 snaps.
     
  4. Dec 20, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    yes that looks correct as you have shown and described
     
  5. Dec 20, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    I have found, though, pics of CJ2A's with the curved (versus straight) edge. This is all so confusing.....

    Would a CJ5 door be wider or taller than ones for the CJ2's and 3's? Would anyone happen to have some measurements that I could use to compare with what I have?
     
  6. Dec 20, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    yes yes and yes
    I'll measure mine tonight
    they are the 3A version
     
  7. Dec 20, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Thanks so much jpflat2a! I did some measuring myself tonight, so I'll be interested to see what you come up with.....

    Do your doors have the angled edge or the curved edge.....and how many snaps are there (and how are they configured)?
     
  8. Dec 21, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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  9. Dec 21, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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  10. Dec 21, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Oh my! A picture truly is worth a thousand words. Thank you so much jpflat2a....this is a great help.

    Looks to me like I have 2 sets of Kayline CJ2A doors because they have a turn button (and two snaps) and the angled door edge. I think I also have a set of Kayline CJ5 doors because the snaps (five of them) are on a flap that is parallel with the door frame edge on the latch side (plus, it is wider and longer).

    I also discovered that I have two sets of Bestop doors.....one set of 2-part doors for a CJ3 probably and a set of full doors for a CJ5. I'll post up pics later so you can help to verify.

    Thanks again.....I really appreciate your efforts to help a guy out!!
     
  11. Dec 22, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    I don't have any doors with the rope/channel snap set up like on your F3A Luxair doors, but that is exactly what is shown in the installation instructions I printed out.

    Question: would doors for 2A's, 3A's, and 3B's be interchangeable and just have different mounting configurations (rope/channel, snap, turn buttons) at the hinge point?

    I think I solved my earlier confusion regarding the angled versus curved door openings on the doors. It seems that Kayline doors for the flat fender models were angled, but the Bestop doors were curved.

    All doors (Kayline, Bestop and Whitco) are curved for the 5's.

    It seems that the flat fender doors are roughly 24-24.5 inches across the top at the frame, while the CJ5 doors are about 26.5-27 inches across.

    Door frames at the hinge side for the flat fender doors are, overall, between 35 and 35.5 inches tall, while the CJ5 doors are between 37 and 38 inches tall.

    Flat fender doors consistently have a substantial bend in the bottom part of the frame. The bend in the CJ5 doors is very slight.

    Here are some pics for reference. Please correct me if anything I'm saying doesn't seem right.....

    Kayline CJ2A (because of angle edge and presence of turn button):
    [​IMG]

    Kayline CJ5 (because of curved edge and the snaps are relatively parallel with the latch side of the door):
    [​IMG]

    Bestop CJ5 (same reasons as above):
    [​IMG]

    Here are the 2 brands of CJ5 door side-by-side to show differences (4 snaps on Bestop, 5 on Kayline, different detail around windows, different stitching patterns, different frame construction):
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dec 22, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Here's a CJ5 Whitco door (totally different material that the other two brands, different window pattern....basically everything is unique):
    [​IMG]

    And here's a Bestop 2-piece door:
    [​IMG]

    All the pics above are of sets of doors. I do also have this solo door with a different snap/channel configuration. It is for a flat fender model (drastic bend in the bottom of the frame, roughly 24" across the top of the frame, etc). Any idea what flat fender model this would go to?
    [​IMG]

    I'll be heading out shortly to try to identify and match-up the various door hardware I have to these doors....and, if there's time, to start identifying tops.....stay tuned!
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  13. Dec 23, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    I spent a couple hours yesterday looking through tops and hardware and bows.

    I've identified (I think) 2 Kayline tops for the CJ2A (which is good because I have what I believe are 2 sets of Kayline doors). The distinguishing characteristic that I'm basing my conclusions on is the presence of the turn buttons where the top attaches to the windshield....8 of them across the top and 1 more in each corner (along with one snap). Of course, measurements help to confirm as well, especially around the door openings.

    One appears to be the standard, non-convertible, top. There is one solid window on either side:
    [​IMG]

    It has a flat back panel with a small window on either side of the rear zippered panel:
    [​IMG]

    The rear zippered panel has 4 straps that would attach to footman loops on the tailgate.

    It most resembles this top as shown for a CJ5:
    [​IMG]

    The only thing that doesn't match up is the small window on the side panels. Maybe this is a feature on the 5's because they're longer than the flat fenders.....would that make sense?

    I'd rate the condition of this top as a 9/10....really nice shape.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  14. Dec 23, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    The second top is, I believe, the "Kayliner" variety of top for the CJ2A as evidenced by the two side panel windows separated by a diagonal strip of fabric (where a bow would pass, correct?):
    [​IMG]

    The rear is one solid window and, instead of straps, has an inner and outer flap with snaps:
    [​IMG]

    Ït most resembles the pics in these ads:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'd probably rate this one as an 8/10....the windows aren't quite as crystal clear as the first one...

    Do you guys think I'm right here, or is there something that you see that would send me in a different direction?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  15. Dec 23, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    I started going through sets of bows that we're still taped together (so I'm sure they belong one with another). I may need some help with measurements from those of you who might have these or similar bows......

    This set of bows is already joined by a strip of metal about 12.75" long:
    [​IMG]

    It is the only set of bows I have that has the upper portion of the bow bent like this:
    [​IMG]

    That same bow has 9 snaps across the bottom-side, spanning all the way across and these holes (one in each corner):"
    [​IMG]

    The other bow has a small hook at each corner:
    [​IMG]

    .....and this hole (which I'm sure is for the horizontal rod that would run above the door opening):
    [​IMG]

    It is a much larger diameter hole that the holes in the other bow.

    Anyone have an idea of brand/model for this one?
     
  16. Dec 23, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    it's possible this is for a MB
    and MB doors were different than 2A doors
     
  17. Dec 26, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Different in what way(s)?

    Now that I'm sorting flat fenders from CJ5's, maybe I should post something up in that section, too.

    So far, I'm pretty sure I have this:

    1 Kayline Luxair for a CJ5 complete with doors, bows and all original mounting hardware

    1 Kayline Luxair for a CJ3B without doors, maybe bows and some mounting hardware

    1 complete set of bows and rods for a Kayline (Luxair ?) for a CJ2A

    1 set of bows with some of the rods for a Kayline (Luxair?) for a CJ3A

    1 Kayline Standard Full Top for a CJ2A

    1 Kayline "Kayliner" Top for a CJ2A

    others still to be determined......

    And, changing gears a bit, the million dollar question is this:

    Is there a demand for these tops, doors and bows?

    It occurs to me that if I sell the ones I have, they'll be gone. If I use them to create templates and reproduce them, it might be a better long-term decision.

    I have a contact with a man in South Carolina who reproduces very high quality soft tops (in the OEM style) for the FJ40 Land Cruisers. He's gearing up to produce soft tops for the old Land Rovers as well. He said he'd be interested in reproducing these tops, too, and to send his some pics to look over.

    Is this spitting into the wind or a worthwhile venture? Input, please.....
     
  18. Dec 26, 2010
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I would think it could be a worthwhile venture, there are a lot of Jeeps around and not a real good selection of tops. At this point I suggest you open a discussion in Off Topic about this since it will get away from the technical aspect, keeping this thread going about the technical side.
     
  19. Dec 26, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    Glenn - Thanks....I agree and I'll do just that.....
     
  20. Dec 27, 2010
    CruiserStuff

    CruiserStuff Member

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    After tons of research and the help from you fine folks, I believe I can finally say with confidence that I have a complete Kayline Luxair top for the CJ5, complete with doors, bows, all mounting hardware and the original installation instructions. Do you agree or does something look amiss?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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