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71 Wheeling Rig

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Fireball, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Mar 30, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    It doesn’t get mentioned enough, but the reason we have to add caster to old vehicles is due to radial vs bias ply tires. When these were built, bias ply tires were the norm. Bias ply tires form a hump a few degrees behind the resting point when in motion. Steering was easy at rest with only one or two degrees caster, then more caster would develop at speed within the tires themselves.

    Radial tires retain the same contact patch at rest or in motion, so more resting caster is needed.

    I can’t find the literature I had on this subject. :confused:
     
    Stakebed, Ol Fogie, Rubicloak and 2 others like this.
  2. Mar 30, 2021
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    I have heard that mentioned on here before, maybe quite a while ago?
     
  3. Mar 30, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Probably me. If I’m making it up, at least I’m consistent. :D
     
    Bobcreag, Ol Fogie, dozerjim and 3 others like this.
  4. Mar 30, 2021
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Lookin good at least your making progress. My pile I’m about ready to send to the scrapper everything I take apart to repair or rebuild has been so f....... bubba fabbed or repaired I’m ending up just replacing 99% of it as an example why the f...would you weld the clutch disks together in a Dana 27 power lock? I’ll quit venting now it’s just nice to admire other peoples work and hope mine comes out as nice.
     
    Danefraz, vtxtasy, dozerjim and 2 others like this.
  5. Mar 30, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    This made me pull out some of my old vehicle engineering books. Bias ply tires tend to have more "pneumatic trail". Trail means the side force acting on the tire is a little bit behind the center of load pushing the tire into the ground. This creates a "self aligning" torque that makes the tire want to straighten itself out when side loaded. Bias ply tires essentially have more internal caster build into the tire. It's mainly a function of contact patch shape and sidewall stiffness. It doesn't seem like the "standing wave" lump that can form behind the contact patch at speed is a large part in it.

    Another factor is manual steering was very common on old vehicles and less caster is easier to steer. That way grandma could steer her manual steering dual-quad 427 Bel Air to church on Sunday. With power steering this is much less of an issue. Older German cars have always had lots of caster and felt great on the highway while American land yachts from the same time period are more likely to float all over the road.
     
    Stakebed, Ol Fogie and ITLKSEZ like this.
  6. Mar 30, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Oh man, I've been there. The wiring in this Jeep is like that and the cooling system was. Stick with it. You'll get through.

    ...although always keep your eye open for a parts Jeep that's not as hacked to steal things from.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
    Ol Fogie and Rubicloak like this.
  7. Mar 31, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Workbench cleaning tonight.

    Before. 20ft of work bench and not a square foot to set anything on:
    [​IMG]

    After. I only got about 85% of the way there. :cry: It's better than it was though:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Mar 31, 2021
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    I have literally taken my arm swept all of the stuff on a bench into a trash can and rage quit it..
     
    Ol Fogie, wheelie, Rich M. and 2 others like this.
  9. Mar 31, 2021
    Snoops

    Snoops Making progress, slow but at least it's forward! 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Idaho
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    Nice workbench, but I think you need a few more outlets! :rofl:
     
  10. Mar 31, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    :rofl:

    I knew should have done a second row!
     
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  11. Mar 31, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    I spent most of yesterday cleaning off the bench too. It didn't last long. It is now stacked with D18 parts as I cherry pick though about 10 of everything to assemble another for Jeff's 5.13:1 gear set.
     
    Ol Fogie, dozerjim and Fireball like this.
  12. Mar 31, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    You guys who can clean a bench in one day aren’t even trying. :D
     
  13. Mar 31, 2021
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    x2 .......amateurs
     
  14. Mar 31, 2021
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    That would be very Snake Plissken like.
     
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  15. Mar 31, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    And to be precise, it's 72 outlets in 18 ft. Always a place to plug in an angle grinder.
     
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  16. Mar 31, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Are all those on one circuit?
     
  17. Mar 31, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Yeah, one 20 amp circuit. I rarely find my self using them all at the same time. :D

    Realistically I should put each of the 3 sections on it's own circuit but in practice everything is plugged in where I'm working so it won't matter.
     
    Ol Fogie and Buildflycrash like this.
  18. Apr 1, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
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    I just found your post. I realize you have already gotten your adapters and all is well now. However I would like to say for your and everyone's future benefit that adapters are not really needed. The fitting in the back of the pump is simply removable and can be exchanged with a factory fitting from an older or newer pump, the pumps are the same internally. Flare fittings or newer o-ring fittings both will work on either newer or older Saginaw pumps. At least this is what I found when converting my 74 to power steering. I had salvaged a steering gear and hoses from a 81 cj7 with o-ring fittings and a Saginaw pump from a 72 jeep wagon with with flare fittings. I had an old junk pump from a 84 dodge van with the o-ring fitting on it, it worked perfect even in the older jeep wagon pump.
     
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  19. Apr 1, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    This is good info, thanks for adding it. I was digging around to see if I had another pump and all I've got is Ford stuff.
     
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  20. Apr 1, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
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    Aside from the interchangeable pressure line fittings I think those Saginaw pumps must all be about like no matter what auto or truck they are on or the year model. The only differences I noticed was that the very early ones had different pulleys that were vehicle specific, some were keyed with a nut and some were pressed on. Also there were some minor difference in the return line orientation from model to model. They are so generic they can be rearranged to work on most any jeep setup.
     
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