'67 Oddfire 225 Bent Push Rods

In my ongoing effort to get this project running and back to life,

Aquired A 67 Cj5- Highly Modified Help Needed
225 V6 Dauntless Video - Excessive Noise?

I was rotating the crank by hand while preparing to install the new water pump. I heard a popping noise as I just passed TDC. I figured it's a lifter so I removed the valve cover. You think this is normal? Lol.



I guess the lifter collapsed and the rod slipped down between the lifter and the block no joy. I removed the rocker assembly and the lifter on the #5 exhaust value is totally collapsed. I removed the rod and started the engine w/o the cyl #5 push rod in hopes to try to pump the lifter back up. Didn't work. The rod sinks much lower than the others and the lifter must have a spring in it because the rod bounces when you push on it. The other rods are solid. and you can't compress them.

To top it off I still have the noise. This is a secondary problem. I think one of the valves on the other bank is sticking and it's making a popping noise when it releases. Also when I ran the engine not much oil is accumulating in the valve area. I not sure the valves are getting enough oil. Should I be running lead additive or something? I put some Lugas treatment into the gas in hopes of freeing up the valves but it's not working.

I looking for a trick to pump the lifter back up or just bad news that it won't work and I should pull the intake manifold.

One other observation, the front oil passage going up to the rocker, I can blow air into it. The back one is blocked. Is the oil passage under the rear rocker assembly mount truly a oil passage or is it just a dead end? I also notice one other valve is kind of sticking when I push on it.

Also noticed a weird type of sludge. It's gray but doesn't look like metal. It almost like some weird additive was added in the past.



Singing the Jeep blues.

Thanks everyone.

 

Not Hardly.........Probably collapsed lifter, flat cam or issues at the rocker that allowed the push rod to find excess clearance and get off the rocker????

Dirty , old or .........need to come out....probably already got the cam or associated parts and that may be the grey death sludge your seeing..

The oil Galley only feeds the front through the block and into the heads on both sides.........no hole through block in rear.

I would pull the manifold and start there........check the push rods and pull the lifters and mark them for each position.....Lot's of stuff to look at cut the oil filter open.....................whats the history on this motor?

 

Thanks guys. I don't have any history on the motor other than it sat for a long time. The gray sludge looks and feels like zink additive. I guess I'll pull the intake but I was thinking about running some Berrymans through the engine first. There is no sludge under the valve covers so I'm wondering why the lifter collapsed? I would imagine it's because the oil channel is clogged but the engine looks clean? Can I dump some cleaner down the push rod tube?

 

I was just kidding about the bent rocker being normal remark. Humor helps in these situations. I don't think the cam is toast but I'll check. I straightened out the push rod, put it back in and pushed against the lifter by hand. It bounces like a spring which tells me it's just collapsed. It must be oil starved and possibly a blocked oil galley. I ran the engine with the push rod out and it didn't pump the lifter back up.

I shoved a piece of thin wire down the oil galley at the front rocker bolt tower and it seemed like there is some gunk in the passages. It's not bad and I think it will thin out.

 

Marvel Mystery oil.......but at this point just how long do you expect it to last......without first taking a good hard look at the inside?

 

Interesting, I had that same silver/gray sludge in the same place... also a fair amount at the bottom of my oil pan. I just scraped it out, and i have probably had at least 15k hard miles since then without so much as a slight hiccup from the engine. So I am guessing you are right, it's the result of some kind of additive.

 

All the old Buick/jeep 225 engines I have taken apart have had bad cams and smashed or otherwise inoperable lifters. Your valve may have seized in the guide and bent the rod? Regardless, like Terry said, take the intake off and poke around. Expect to find broken and worn cam and valve train issues. The silvery stuff is the engine and bearings wearing out, best I can tell. All my engines had it in it.

 

If the engine was sitting for a length of time, it is likely a valve stuck in the guide, and when the engine was started, the pushrod got bent trying to open the stuck valve. This, in turn, could have damaged the hydraulic lifter, breaking the plunger. With the pushrod out, can you push on the end of the valve stem to see if the valve operates freely?
Either way, I would be pulling at least the intake manifold, if not the heads just to inspect the condition.
-Donny

 

Found my problem. Lifter came apart.



Amazing but none of the parts fell into the pan and no damage. the retainer came off the top. The cam and lifters still look good and I was able to put the lifter back together.

The real problem is all of the lifters are frozen solid and the valves are sticky from sitting. The results was three bent push rods and the lifter. I started taking the lifters out, disassembling and cleaning them one at a time. Seems to being going good I have the DS bank done. Straightened the push rods and I put ATF on the valve stems and I'm going to work them until they operate smooth. They don't seem to be frozen (anymore).

 

I also broke out the priming attachment for my drill. Some heavy stuff came out of the upper galleys but not too bad. I think I'm going to pump some ATF through the engine then dump it. We'll see if I can salvage it. I don't have the money for a rebuild so this will have to do for now.

 

Rebuild is a relative term when you don't have money. A mechanic can fix things...You already have the intake off, I would just go a bit farther and pull the heads to really inspect the valves. You're only going to be out a head gasket set. You will have a pretty good idea at that point.

Its free to lap valves and you can see if they are bent or burned. If thy are bent or burnt, you could probably even coax someone to send you some old good valves to lap into the seat.. I did just that. Mine runs fine.

 

In addition to what Chris said above about pulling the heads, there is a possibility that if a valve was stuck in the open position, it could have been kissed by a piston, bending the valve. Usually the pistons have a dish that would keep this from happening, but at least lapping the valves would assure a good seal, and you would then know what you have as far as upper-end condition.
-Donny

 

You guys are right. I should pull the heads and take them over to our local machine shop. They actually didn't charge much to regrind my F134 head. Would you guys run the old push rods or get new ones? I had to straighten three of them and they seem like they turned out pretty good.

 

I've read these aren't interference engines unless you pump the lifters to max capacity during install. Is this correct? I leaving mine empty and will prime them when I have the rockers back on.

 

Just try it yourself first. Machine shop is going to do it right with a 3 angle grind, probably want to cut in new seats and minimally knurl your guides. It will be expensive. Lapping valves is super easy and fast if you chuck them up on a cordless drill.

They most certainly will kiss the piston and this is probably what happened to bend that push rod. Don't be surprised if you take off that head and see a bent valve.

Don't be afraid to do some work on the heads.. All my stuff was junk and therefore can't wreck garbage worse, but I could make it better, and I did. You can too.

 

Regarding head work, when I worked parts counter we sent out customer's heads to a local machine shop. The shop had a price list, and as I recall, charged $40 to grind the valves of a single V8 head (this is near $100 in today's money). This included disassemble, clean, inspect (mostly inspection of the old valves, springs and keepers, not magnaflux), grind the valves and seats to a 3-angle grind, reassemble and paint. Heads went in and the shop always quoted a significantly higher total than the base price. We would always recommend magnaflux to test for cracks. The shop would routinely recommend surface and knurl in addition to the base price. Often the shop would require some new exhaust valves - exhaust valve margins are often too thin after grinding and the valve must be replaced. These extra operations and parts add up fast to a much larger total than the advertised price. On top of that, the shop would not guarantee any work if you declined any of what they recommended. So be aware of what you're getting in to if you send in your heads for refurbishing.

JMO - you should replace any bent pushrods. New parts are short money compared to machine work. Take all the valves out and check the stems for straightness. Do a wiggle test of the valves in their guides. Use a machinist's ruler and check the head for flatness (there is a spec). Clean and inspect everything.

Did it jump time? I don't see how the valves could touch the pistons with the proper cam timing. As I recall, you are supposed to prime the lifters before installation, so they will be as full as the valve pressure allows.

 

When I put in new lifters, the manufactures direction said NOT to prime or soak in oil.

 

Pushrods and lifters are cheap. As long as the cam lobes are not significantly worn I'd replace the bent rods, bad lifters. Just measure the new rods to ensure length match. Lap the valves, check the timing chain condition and go.
A decent long block job on your engine should be around $2500 so not worth digging in too far.

 

I'm thinking I a should step back and do a compression check. Since the rockers are off I'm going to pull the plugs and do each cylinder.

 

How is the engine going to suck in air for compression if you have the rockers removed?