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'65 Rubicon Rig

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by timsresort, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. Jan 17, 2021
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,456
    Thank you for documenting this so well, very informative. Some of you guys make it look so easy!
     
    timsresort likes this.
  2. Jan 18, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Thanks, I think we all learn stuff from each other, so this my contribution.
     
    47v6 and Fireball like this.
  3. Jan 18, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Needs lockers 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,157
    X2 this makes me want to give it a try.
     
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  4. Jan 19, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    While we have a little break waiting for parts, I will post todays wheeling pic. This is in the Rubicon Little Sluice Box on the 67th Jeepers Jamboree in 2019. 2 years before, I had my son Nick start driving the trail for longer segments until he was doing the complete trail. I tell you what, he has it down, and it is much more relaxing for me. By the time we got to the Sluice in '19, he said he had it, so we took the original trail, rather than bypassing the Sluice, as most do on a Jamboree weekend.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jan 19, 2021
    locrwln

    locrwln New Member

    Carson City, NV
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    18

    My first time through the ‘Con was in ‘95 in my YJ on 32’s. Managed to whack a rear corner in the sluice the following year.

    It sure has changed through the years.

    Jack
     
    timsresort likes this.
  6. Jan 21, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Yes, it has. In the early 90's it was made to be hard and became a destination for the more extreme crowd. Now, the County has returned it to a rough, but doable state. We also whacked a gas can when Nick had it perpendicular to the line at one point. But that's where memories are made.
     
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  7. Jan 22, 2021
    locrwln

    locrwln New Member

    Carson City, NV
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Agreed. Even though I joined Pirate (member number in the 400’s) early, I would argue that forum brought way too much popularity to the trail. Tires got bigger and the trail got rougher. Still beautiful up there.

    Jack
     
    timsresort likes this.
  8. Jan 23, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Alright, parts arrived yesterday, had to work today, but got home in time to get started. This is the slinger, apparently important for oiling in front 44's, and it measures .060, so I need to add that to my preload shims.
    [​IMG]
    Pressed the bearing on with the slinger behind it.
    [​IMG]
    Installed the pinion in the housing with the inner set up race and starter depth shims, and the preload shims on the shaft with the set up outer bearing. Torqued the yoke on to 200 lb. Now, for pinion preload, I rotate the pinion with my inch pound dial indicating torque wrench to get to 20-40 inch lbs preload, while turning. I had to remove .010 to get to the sweet spot, that I also managed to get a photo of while turning.
    [​IMG]
    Now that the pinion is in spec, time to work out the carrier bearing shims. I installed the carrier and set up a dial indicator to read the side play. Starting shim packs are figured and installed. I am so happy I have set up bearings, I can slide them off and on the (10-20) times I will be adjusting the shim packs, rather than setting up a bearing puller.
    [​IMG]
    With my starter pack on the carrier, I knock the carrier into the housing. It's a tight fit requiring several big blows with the BFH. Now time to check backlash. First time, way too tight, moved .010 from ring gear side to non ring gear side. Second time, 3rd, 4th, still too tight, same procedure. Each time I have to pry the carrier out with a bar, move shims from one side to the other, reinstall. I always work over a 1" thick rubber mat, and that was important when I pried the carrier out and it dropped to the floor. Anyhow, now I have what feels to be pretty good backlash, and I confirm it with the dial indicator. .004" tight but within spec.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jan 24, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Today I want to put this baby to bed. Time to run a pattern. 1st try, too much toe contact. This is on the normal drive side of the tooth, but in a front application this is the coast side.
    [​IMG]
    After consulting my cheat sheet, I pull the carrier, and decrease backlash by moving .010 from NRGS to RGS.
    [​IMG]
    Better, but I decide to play with pinion depth, which affects preload, backlash, and let's just say it took a while. By try number 5, I had a decent pattern on the drive side, and not too shabby on the coast, (which is the drive in the front).
    [​IMG]
    But now I have too much, then too little backlash, then too loose on the preload. On try number 7 I got backlash within spec, a decent pattern still, and pinion preload at 35 in/lb. I am calling this good. This is my cheat sheet I used for years.
    [​IMG]
    Now, tear it down again, remove set up bearings, press on new bearings over the shim stacks, reinstall, check preload, backlash, run a pattern, and hooray, it's all good. Lastly, pull the yoke one last time, install a new pinion seal.
    [​IMG]
    And the yoke can go on with a new pinion nut that hasn't been beaten on for the past 4 hours.
    [​IMG]
    Time for a beer. And think about what's next.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Jan 24, 2021
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,060
    Hats off to you, I have no patience and have to sub that out. At significant cost...
     
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  11. Jan 24, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Rich, I used to farm it out. Then, when I became suspect of the quality of the work, and realized I would have to run a pattern to double check the guy, and as you say, it is pricey, I decided to tackle it myself. I remember paying $200 for a set up back then, and that was on the edge of affordability. Now, if I had to charge for what I just did, at the going shop rate, it would cost $400-500, plus parts. And if nothing else, it kept me busy in the garage on a snowy Sunday.
     
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  12. Jan 25, 2021
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Messages:
    578
    I would say that was time well spent.
     
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  13. Jan 26, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Had a little time to think about axle shafts. This housing came from a friend with 2 sets of custom cut stock shafts, and the outer stubs were really nice chromoly stubs with CTM u-joints that I robbed for my 3B. So what is left are the inners and some random stock stub shafts I had kicking around. I also bought new lube-able Moog u-joints from Rockauto.
    [​IMG]
    I started pressing joints into the stubs and found some problems. The first one has some rust damage on the splines, so that's NFG. The second one had an oblong eye that the cup fell through. The 2 rusty and greasy ones were good. We will carry trail spares, but I think we should consider this for a future upgrade.
    [​IMG]
    Ready to be installed after a coat of paint that's not happening today (with a high of 23).
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jan 29, 2021
    Lanny

    Lanny New Member

    Placerville
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    What carb are you running on your 3b?
     
  15. Jan 29, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Just an old fashioned Rochester 2G. Part of keeping it simple.
     
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  16. Jan 29, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Next on the front end would be the knuckles. I sent them with Nick, who passes by WFO on his way to Chico, and they are done, ready for pick up, and with some bad/really good snow weather this week (depending on how you look at it) they are not arriving here this week. I had them machine and drill and tap the right side for high steer, press in some new Moog ball joints, and taper the tie rod holes for top-down tie rod ends. So, I change gears and go back to the V6, which has been practically yelling at me to assemble it every time I go to the beer fridge. It arrives, and is on the stand. (Cue the trumpets)
    [​IMG]
    I get it inside and start assembling the various parts that have been drifting in from Rockauto, Partsdude, Summit.
    [​IMG]
    A new timing cover, from Partsdude, is always a nice start, considering this all started with a lack of oil pressure.
    [​IMG]
    Main and rod bearings, oil pump, rings.
    [​IMG]
    I start with getting the new rings installed on the used pistons. (Since I did not bore the cylinders, I am reusing the pistons). I check the ring gap on a few, and they are good to spiral in to the groove without filing.
    [​IMG]
    Very careful to keep the ring gaps oriented correctly, and keep the piston mark forward, and the oil spurt hole on the rod cap to the top. All done and ready for tomorrow.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Jan 30, 2021
    locrwln

    locrwln New Member

    Carson City, NV
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Nice!

    Jack
     
  18. Jan 30, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    I have had my Universal Jeep manual since I bought my '67 in 1986. Over the years it has been used heavily for countless projects. It has never let me down, and in my opinion is "The Book". When it started falling apart, I had the covers laminated, and since the office store offered, spiral bound so it lays open. I need a little brush up on engine assembly, so out comes the book. First, I am going to check bearing clearances. I completely trust Danny at the machine shop, and this motor is just a pimple on a gnat's butt, in his world of high performance race motors, I am doing this for my own satisfaction, and practice. He sized and bought the bearings for me, so let's have a look.
    [​IMG]
    The only way I have, and was taught by my dad, is to use plastigage. I cut a little piece of green for each main cap.
    [​IMG]
    I carefully place the crank on the upper bearings, install the caps with plastigage, torque to spec.
    [​IMG]
    Unbolt all the caps and compare the witness marks left, and all are in the .002-.003 range, so i am good to go with assembly.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Jan 31, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Moving on, and with all clearances looking good, I lube the bearings with assembly lube, install a neoprene rear main seal (for a 231), and drop the crank in.
    [​IMG]
    I install the rear seal in the rear cap, and get all caps on and finger tight.
    [​IMG]
    Torque all the caps, then check end play with the dial indicator.
    [​IMG]
    Next I get all the rod bearings ready for a bearing clearance check, and all was good. So lube them up and put a ring compressor over the rings and knock them into the bores, one at a time, with the little protectors on the bolts, then torquing the caps to spec.
    [​IMG]
    Next I install the oil pickup and windage tray, and rotate it back to upright. I install a pair of new head gaskets, and the heads, torque to spec.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Feb 2, 2021
    timsresort

    timsresort Member

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    That is far as I can go without the cam and lifters, and they are due any moment. But I have to look ahead, and I decide to clear snow and get the hoist inside, and get the rest of the drivetrain out and on the table, and since the hoist is right here, pull the winch and steering box so I can weld the front hangers to the inside of the frame horns.
    [​IMG]
    Burned a bunch of wire all around the hangers, and the shackle sleeves, and painted.
    [​IMG]
    Pounded in some new YJ bushings from WFO.
    [​IMG]
    New 4" shackles from WFO, and the front springs are hung.
    [​IMG]
     

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