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62 with 3 screw drums. Drop right off?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by ODBuffalo, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Feb 5, 2015
    ODBuffalo

    ODBuffalo Member

    Fort Wayne, IN
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    Ive been saturating the drum with CRT and the good news is that I did get the drum to turn a little knocking against the studs but no movement like its coming off. Due to kds in bed early I'll have to wait till tomorrow to knock it with a hammer.

    Thanks again.
     
  2. Feb 5, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    That's good news, at least you are making some progress.
     
  3. Feb 5, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    If it's moving at all, you are all done with the hammer trick.
     
  4. Feb 5, 2015
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    If you got the drum to turn slightly on the hub, limited by the studs, that interference fit is not what is holding your drum on. My bet is the shoes are adjusted out into a worn drum with a big ridge keeping the drum from pulling off. Try to adjust the starwheel back to retract the shoes as far as you can.
    -Donny
     
  5. Feb 6, 2015
    ODBuffalo

    ODBuffalo Member

    Fort Wayne, IN
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    If I get frustrated enough, I still might use the hammer.

    I have the drums with the 2 adjusting bolts on the rear and have tried to adjust them and noticed no difference. I removed one of the bolts and was able to move the shoe. Maybe Ill have to try and fish around the inside from the back.
     
  6. Feb 6, 2015
    Mike C

    Mike C Member

    Austin, TX
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    If the star wheel won't turn or is inaccessible, you can cut/grind the heads off the shoe retaining pins then just pull the whole mess off. Sounds like a complete brake job with all new shoes and hardware is in the near future.
     
  7. Feb 6, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    There is no star wheel on those, just a cam shaped stud and a locking nut on each side for adjusting each shoe independently. I seriously think the whole hub should be pulled at this point. I'd bet it has been ages since the bearings have been looked at anyway. This brake job really needs to turn in to an axle assembly inspection. ;)
     
  8. Feb 6, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    This is what you're working with, right?
    Top is wheel cylinder and middle 2 are the eccentrics for shoe adjustment.
    [​IMG]

    This is what it looks like on the inside apart. Wheel cylinder in the back, eccentric at top.
    [​IMG]
    when you adjust the eccentric it will push the shoe out or pull it in. Figure out which way is tight and back it off the other way. The shoes will drag on the drum and may even catch on a lip machined into the drum from the shoes. The shoes are held on by a stamped T shaped pin and a spring and cup that goes into the backing plate. Don't play with your brake drum. Use a 4 lb hammer and beat the crud out of it until it comes off. If its this messed up you're going to need to replace it, the shoes and the hardware anyway. If you somehow bend the hub I will give you one for the cost of shipping. Sometimes the answer is brute force and ignorance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  9. Feb 6, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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  10. Feb 6, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Dave,
    The top one is taken with my favorite potato phone.
     
  11. Feb 7, 2015
    Willys Motors

    Willys Motors New Member

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    If you've got the hub rotating separately from the hub now, the fun part begins with the shoes.
    I agree with backing off the adjusters, but my experience with trying to pull the drum directly off is that the shoes rock and bind.
    If you can turn the whole drum and hub assembly while pulling, the drum can walk off.
    My bet is you have a leaky wheel cylinder or grease seal and the drum is full of a combination of dirt that is nice and gooey.

    If that is the case, if you can get any brake clean in there if may help brake up the mud/lube paste that is gluing the shoes in place.
     
  12. Feb 8, 2015
    ODBuffalo

    ODBuffalo Member

    Fort Wayne, IN
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    Willys, I think that is exactly what is happening. I messed with it yesterday for while with no luck. I can hear the shoes when I turn the assembly by hand.

    So how does removing the hub make it any easier to get the drum off?
    Im a first timer so what does it take to get the hub out? Any special tools, pullers, presses? All I have is basic hand tools.

    Im sure the bearings need to be sealed, so on to removing the hub.



    Thanks again
     
  13. Feb 8, 2015
    47v6

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    You need a hub puller to remove them. it bolts on to the lugs and uses a screw to press on the axle. there is a T shaped bar that fits on the nut and you hit it with a hammer. That usually is more difficult than removing a drum.
     
  14. Feb 8, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    "So how does removing the hub make it any easier to get the drum off? "

    I doubt that it will. And it does require a special extra-heavy-duty puller.

    Work the drum, rotating and pulling, using your best cuss words. It may take a while. Possibly the wheel cylinder is frozen, and preventing the shoes from retracting.
     
  15. Feb 8, 2015
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Which for me, would take me back to finding a replacement axle with the same gearing in it.
     
  16. Feb 8, 2015
    ODBuffalo

    ODBuffalo Member

    Fort Wayne, IN
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    "Work the drum, rotating and pulling, using your best cuss words. It may take a while. Possibly the wheel cylinder is frozen, and preventing the shoes from retracting."

    Would it do any good to unbolt the wheel cylinder and more it around inside the drum?
    Spray some brake cleaner inside the drum from the rear?

    Is there a way to tell (stamping?) which gears are in the rear without taking it apart?

    It seems like it is spinning a little easier/more quiet (very little but noticeable) since I was messing with it yesterday.

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  17. Feb 8, 2015
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

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    There is the 'spin the tire and count the number of revolutions of the drive-shaft' method. And a little math.
     
  18. Feb 8, 2015
    Willys Motors

    Willys Motors New Member

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    If you can borrow or rent a puller that is the next step.

    The hub may take an amazing amount of force to separate it from the interference fit on the tapered axle. So it may make a very load popping noise when it breaks free.

    The advantage is that once the bond between the hub and axle is separated, by continuing to turn the screw on the puller it will drag the drum over the shoes.
    The worst that has ever happened when I did that was to bend the old shoes or the tabs on the backing plate.

    Go for it...

    With this type of puller

    http://www.sw-em.com/Brake_Drum_Notes.htm
     
  19. Feb 8, 2015
    Mike C

    Mike C Member

    Austin, TX
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    Originally, all of the Dana axles have a tag either on one or between two (front axle) of the cover bolts that tell you either the ratio, the tooth count, or both.

    I haven't had my eccentric brakes apart in awhile, but can't you just remove the nuts completey, disconnect the brake line and remove the wheel cylinder bolts, and any other brake retaining hardware and have it all come out?
     
  20. Feb 8, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Anyone that owns a Jeep with rear hubs like those needs to either own, have access to a hub puller or a shop that can work on it. I agree the shoes could most certainly be holding the drum on, and it sounds like they probably are. With a hub puller he could have found out if that is the problem days ago. If the drum is off but still on the hub you can support the drum with wood and you should be able to drive the hub off.
     
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