360 upgrade

So I adopted two Wagoneers - a 1979 and Grand 1984. Both 360. I want to use one for the CJ (258 now) and rebuild the Wagoneers into one good one. Is there a year difference in the engine years. Both will need a mild rebuild so they are identical in condition.

 

nope shouldnt be much power diff. between the two years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_V8_engine

 

There's a lot of difference in the Wagons - you want to drive the '79 if you can.

The main difference in the engines is the TH400 engine will have a thin bushing in the back end of the crankshaft to support the end of the torque convertor. You have to remove this to use the engine with the TF727, and it must be there for the TH400. There'll be some minor differences in smog equipment too, I would expect.

 

Yeah, the smog stuff will go, no state inspections here. THe 79 has the Quadratrac and the 84 has what I think is a NP231? The front drive is not hooked up on the Quad so that leads me to believe there is a problem with it? The 84 is in much better condition though. I just wanted to make sure either engine would mate up to my trans in the CJ.

 

I think the '84 will be a NP229, which is a viscous coupling full-time case. The 229 was called 'SelecTrac' IIRC. Some of the automatic Wagons got the NP208 'CommandTrac' (?) which is a conventional chain-drive case. A NP 208 would be the better option, but I think the NP229 works well as long as its not damaged.

The best route would be to crawl under the car and look at the tag on the back of the case.

If the '79's BW1339 is damaged, it could have been put in 'emergency drive' (e-drive) to lock the front/rear driveshafts together. There should be an e-drive vacuum switch in the glovebox. Then the front driveshaft could be removed so the car would operate as conventional rear 2WD. Yes, does not sound promising.

 

For a cj swap you need a 360 flywheel. The 304 one is not balanced correctly for the 360. Otherwise, as far as I understand it, its is a direct bolt in swap.

Oh and there is no way that's a np231. maybe a 208 (part time t-case) or a 219 ("fake" quadratrac)

 

IIRC the NP219 was gone by '84.

Check the tag though...

Yes, you need a 360 flywheel. They are available.

 

So if I mate this to my 3 speed manual that bushing will need to come out. I will probably part out the 79 and sink some time and money $$ into the 84. It has the most potential for a shoestring budget. The 360 in the 79 runs good and strong just leaks oil horribly.

 

Hmm. Maybe. I don't think it interferes with the pilot bushing pocket or flywheel. It's about 3" in diam and 1/16" thick IIRC. Just be aware that it's there, depending on the ultimate destination of the engine.

 

your t14 wont live very long behind that 360. you may want to step up to a t18 or t15.

 

What happened to the Pictures?

:uwop:

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/irmosc/20080110Wagoneer

This is the 79.

 

Revisiting an OLD thread here to hopefully provide clarity for other "desktop planners" like me. As I was planning for my 360 swap I found a couple of references to this TH400/360 bushing, and some discussion about how difficult it may be to remove. Figured I'd share a couple of pics to ease the next guy's mind. It's perfectly obvious once you can put eyes on it. I used a lady foot pry bar with a small socket to pry against it to remove. A few taps with a hammer and it came right out.

As Tim mentions above, I don't think it will interfere with the manual transmission. I think I could have left it alone. I'll be doing my swap (304 to 360) in the next couple of weeks and will confirm/update at that time.

 

Thankyou, I was wondering about this too, I have my eye on a pu with a 360 in it.

 

Whether that bushing stays in or not depends on what manual transmission you are using. Ford T-18’s require it’s removal since that’s where the pilot bushing goes. Jeep T-18’s probably don’t since they have a longer pilot on the input shaft and the pilot bushing goes in the deeper step in the crankshaft.

 

The T15 also has the longer/smaller pilot. I hadn’t considered that other gearboxes might not.

 

Quick follow up: I see no reason why the TH400 bushing would interfere with a T15 input shaft. The shaft diameter is quite a bit smaller than the ID of the bushing. I'd have taken it out anyway, but it could be left alone for the 360/T15 combo.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress, Photo too if you can.

 

My kidlet and I removed the 304 Sunday night and bolted in the 360 Monday night. I'm not going to have much of any spare time for a bit, but with it in place I can pick away at it as time pops up.

 

What a great photo!