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225 W/Pro-jection

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by msbweiland, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. May 2, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    422
    You do need a 4 barrel manifold. I have the Offy dual plane manifold. It won't bolt up to the stock 2 barrel manifold. Other than that it is.
     
  2. May 16, 2006
    zed

    zed Iowa- Gateway to Nebraska

    central iowa
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    745
    whatever happened to the project that was going to adapt the s10 or astro v6 tbi and electronix to the 225 oddfire? or did the megasquirt change all that? $800 to $1000 for the holly after market is too rich for me right now.
     
  3. May 23, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
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    422
    Sorry it's taken so long for my summary. Here it is: The ProJection is installed with the optional closed loop kit (o2 sensor) and runs great. Starts with just a flick of the key, idles great, acceleration is good, runs a little rich at WOT but with a 670 cfm kit it's bound to. You can swap out the injectors and drop it down to a 400 cfm kit which I may do. Here are some pics:

    ftp://67.41.175.185/jeep1.jpg

    This is a pic of the second fuel filter, the fuel lines and the 02 wiring all inside the passenger frame rail.

    ftp://67.41.175.185/jeep2.jpg

    This is the controller mounted to the bottom of my heater

    ftp://67.41.175.185/jeep3.jpg

    Shot of the 02 sensor

    ftp://67.41.175.185/jeep5.jpg

    TBI with my old air cleaner, relay on firewall and wiring

    Fire away with questions and additional picture requests!

    Mike
     
  4. May 23, 2006
    zed

    zed Iowa- Gateway to Nebraska

    central iowa
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    745
    looks very nice! good job!

    which kit and pt #? which engine is this running? looks like a 225?
     
  5. May 23, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
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    422
    It's the 502-20S kit. The 2D ProJection. It's on an odd fire 225!
     
  6. May 23, 2006
    1stSgt

    1stSgt Sponsor

    Stokesdale, N.C.
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
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    29
    So what is the total cost for this setup? I would like to know how it does on the road!
     
  7. May 23, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    I emailed the guy that built the GM TBI system for my 258. He told me that he could build one for the odd fire with a crank pick up sensor for the RPM inputs.

    Drawbacks

    No timeing adjustments available due to the odd fire.
    additional cost due to need for pick up sensor.

    We are talking around $1300

    I use his kit now on my 258 and it runs fantastic.

    Here is his site

    http://www.customefis.com/
     
  8. May 23, 2006
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Ava, MO
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    5,085
    Pretty much why I wanted to go with the Chevy 4.3....as the cost of putting FI on the Dauntless would pretty much cover the swap, and you'd have all JY parts.

    Sourcing a used Pro-jection system for the :v6: could swing that though...
     
  9. May 23, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
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    37
    The only problem with all JY parts it the EPROM.

    In order to get the prober fuel at the proper RPM the curves have to be reset in the chip to account for the smaller engine.

    However I am not sure how this plays in with not haveing any timeing control from the computer. I am certain it can adjust for optimum mixture with the MAP, Coolant, TPS and O2 sensors. but you loose some of the benefits when it is forced to be passive with regards to timing.

    It could be done I think.

    Anyone consider a Ford control.

    My understanding is that a ford engine system is a seperate entity all together from the rest of the chassis electrical.

    Could be an easier swap.

    I have no knowlage regarding the Ford system however and part availability might be another issue.
     
  10. May 23, 2006
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Ava, MO
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    5,085
    Oh..sorry I wasn't clear. I meant using the whole 4.3., engine, computer, etc. in place of the :v6: . $1300 goes a long way towards a junk Astro van with a good running 4.3.
     
  11. May 23, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
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    It was about $950. That was a brand new 2D kit and a brand new closed loop kit. You can do it for hundreds less with used parts.

    It goes down the road great, just like with the carb but starts easier and runs smoother. I am excited to take it down to Moab and see how it is off-road since that's why I did this.
     
  12. May 23, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
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    Mike,

    You could do the Pro Jection for less than half that price.

    Mike
     
  13. May 23, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
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    May 15, 2006
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    37
    after talking to a ford tunner, (guy I work with) it sounds like the older ford TBI's used a dist. shaft pickup for its spark signal.

    Now if you use the points eliminator setup and taped into it for the EFI computer, it would theortically in turn adjust the timeing through the rpm curve, send the signal to the coil, and..........

    Here is where I have a question.

    Does the oddfire use an offset inside the cap, (pegs inside are not evenly spaced) to account for the "oddfire"?

    If it does we might be in business. The coil and distributer have no idea whats coing on and the computer would "think" it is an even signal due to the pick up on the dist shaft. the coil fires and the cap compensated for the odd fire. the flywheel keeps the RPM's smooth enough that the computer is non the wiser..............

    Theory is good.

    I'll keep digging, unless the distributer cap IS evenly spaced inside......Still possible though.
     
  14. May 23, 2006
    sparky

    sparky done Staff Member Founder

    Toowoomba, QLD
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    It's staggered so to speak. A V8 cap with two blanked off. That is with HEI. With the points, it's evenly spaced.

    http://home.off-road.com/~merls_garage/oddfire.html
     
  15. May 23, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
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    May 15, 2006
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    37
    cool,

    That should make it easyer.

    I am still digging into Ford TBI's

    most common 3.8's are the 80's tbirds and cougars.

    I love diggin :D
     
  16. May 23, 2006
    mruta

    mruta I drank with Billy!

    Downers Grove, IL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    422
    I, for one, was planning on this until I came across a complete running 4.3 TBI motor for free.

    Anyway, it's really quite simple. The TBI system will only control the fuel if used on a 225- no spark control. You can use your 225 HEI or whatever.

    The biggest hurdle is to give the TBI ECM a usable ignition signal. I planned to have McRuff modify a stock harmonic balancer by installing three steel slugs 180 degrees apart from one another. Then use a Chrysler vehicle speed sensor to pick up on the slugs and create an ignition signal for the 4.3 ECM.

    The easy way around this is to call Holley (or Summit , Jegs, etc.) and get a crank trigger setup. Run the crank sensor to the ECM input and you're set. This can be done for waaaaay cheaper than $1300. The most expensive part would be the Buick V6 crank trigger from Holley (IIRC ~$250).
     
  17. May 23, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
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    May 15, 2006
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    I agree completely,

    Thats why I looks @ Ford.

    The ino I have so far is that thier TBI spark signal is off the Distributer shaft. Put a points eliminator system in and run it to the TBI ECU. the cap does the rest and you still get timeing control.
     
  18. May 23, 2006
    OrangeCJ5

    OrangeCJ5 Sponsor

    Taylorsville, UT
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
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    422
    I looked at those crank triggers as well just in case the pro jection kit didn't like the signals it was getting from my tach lead off the HEI but so far so good.
    Think if you could put one of those superchargers off a thinderbird 3.8, then we would be in business!
     
  19. May 23, 2006
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Ava, MO
    Joined:
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    Don't need to anymore...SSDutch has a carb'd 4.3, and I bought all the OE FI parts with a Holley harness and fuel pump for ~ 1/4 of that price...;)
     
  20. May 24, 2006
    rookieupgrade1

    rookieupgrade1 New Member

    WI
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    thought had crossed my mind :D


    By the way, I did some looking at my dist cap, and the reson why it ran so terribly and I was confused as to the configuration of the cap was because..........the PO put the wrong cap on it.

    Would explain the extraordinary rough running.:rofl:
     

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