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1971 CJ5 First Time Jeep Owner

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Kevin Kolb, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Feb 14, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
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    17
    Hey Folks! I am new to this forum and got my first Jeep yesterday. I was born in 71 and I found one that looked decent on the outside and the same year model as me and took the plunge. I live in North Texas and I own a metal fabrication business and figured this would be a good project on my 2 hours I have free on Sunday! When I got the Jeep home I knew there were things that needed fixing but after a few hours and some researching I realized I am in much deeper than I thought. If my google skills are decent and notes from the previous owners files are correct, the axles appear to have been swapped to 1976 AMC 20's, The transmission is a SM420 4-speed and the transfer case is a Dana 20 and he bought the proper Novak adapter to go from the transmission to the transfer case and the bell housing to fit on the 225 V6. The transmission is mounted to the engine and the transfer case is laying the floor board. the rear axle is way out of alignment and welded terribly and it appears it needs to go further in one direction than is possible without the tire hanging too far to one side out the fender well. The shocks are welded in random places and a different steering column has been added for power steering with the steering gear box mounted out next to my winch just under the front bumper. Power brake booster through the fire wall and discs up front it looks like. I realize this is a lot of information. My question is since most of this stuff is not stock I really don't have a starting point to get things correct, do I? I can't use a diagram or stock locations on the frame with the stuff available to me now. Is this shade tree welding and fitting odd stuff together normal for older jeeps and should I try to find some original parts and try to piece it back together in a manner closer to stock? I want it sitting about the height in the photos and with the tires/wheels that are on it but it may be easier to go stock and then get available after market parts to get it back to the current height. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

     
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  2. Feb 14, 2017
    daddyusmaximus

    daddyusmaximus New Member

    Indiana
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Welcome fellow new guy. Can't offer any advice, I'm just getting back into a CJ myself, and I've never built one until now, but I will say good luck on the build.
     
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  3. Feb 14, 2017
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
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    2,137
    Welcome from Mississippi
     
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  4. Feb 14, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Jan 23, 2014
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    4,170
    Your steering box is a GM Saginaw which is a very common (and recommended) modification, provided it was installed well. Is there any reason the transfer case isn't attached to the transmission? Your rear axle looks like a model 20, but it may have the offset diff rather than a centered one needed for the D20 transfer case. I'm basing this from the photo with the diff cover and U-bolts next to each other. I guess this is what you were saying is out of alignment?They made model 20's both ways, and the one you have may be from a '76-'79 CJ with quadratrac. This works with a D18 transfer case where the driveshafts are both offset to the passenger side, but not your centered D20.
    You will have some sorting of parts, but you have found the right place to help you along!
    Welcome from south Florida.
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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  5. Feb 14, 2017
    cadwelder

    cadwelder Member

    Milton KY
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    Jun 2, 2011
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    202
    Transfer case appears to be Dana 18. Looks like an 18's rear bearing cap.
     
  6. Feb 14, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
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    3,784
    First the suspension is a "Spring over" Variety........normally on this vehicle the axle would be on top of the spring........folks do this to add lift to the vehicle normally to run bigger tires........which it looks like it does have. It also has a body lift based on the height of the body mounts.
    And acceptable method for gaining 4-5" of lift as long as everything is done properly.........as you'll notice the last owner added spring hangers on top of the axle made out of tubing....the angle these were installed at relative to pinion gear angle is important at both the front and rear............Steering also suffers in one of these if it is not done correctly. I can't see the passenger's side steering arm but the angle from the Pittman arm via the Drag steering link seems to be going up hill.........it almost looks like the Pitman arm needed should have been a straight arm coming off the steering gear rather than a dropped arm.............It does look like he added a High steer arm on the passenger side , but left the tie rod below to run under the spring.........basically you would want the Drag link steering arm to be near level as compared to the tie rod below. The additional shocks are just some Cowboys Idea of what he thinks it needs to handle properly , although I see mounts welded to the axle with no shock............Lots of things going on in this vehicle that need an educated eye to look at.....not sure what you were saying about the offset axle?????

    The good news is, if you own a fabrication business correcting all this will probably be easy.

    Keep in mind these things I'm pointing out are only based on what I can see in this computer screen.........some of which may be fine while others not.
     
  7. Feb 14, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
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    Thanks for the information. I now see what your saying with the steering arm. I will check this tomorrow and take some more photos. To answer your question on the rear axle alignment. Looking from the top down through the vehicle (bird's eye view), the left (Driver's side) wheel is considerably further forward than the right (passenger) side. One of the notes did say that a mechanic suggested cutting the tubing on one side and adding it to the other side to make the differential line up with the transfer case. I guess mine is centered differential and i need an offset one to work with the transfer case I have. I appreciate your comments.
     
  8. Feb 14, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
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    I think the last owner got tired of waiting for the shop to finish the project and he went and got the vehicle before it was finished. Not sure on why the transfer case was not installed. He had drive shafts made up the right length and they are with the transfer case in the floor board. He said the rear axle angle was too steep they way it was mounted now and needed to be adjusted. The rear axle is out of alignment looking down from the top. The left wheel is much farther forward than the right wheel. It is clearly obvious and not sure why they welded it in place like that unless they were trying to line up the drive shaft to the transfer case. It would go sideways down the road right now with the amount of offset it has compared to straight wheel alignment up front. lol
     
  9. Feb 14, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
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    Thanks to each of you for commenting. I really appreciate it. I found a shop today north of Dallas called Dallas Offload that advertises working on CJ's. I am going to meet with them tomorrow to see if they feel like they could take a look and get me on the right track. I really just need a little guidance on how things should be placed and if the parts I have on it will all work together. If they can tack the stuff and fit it where it needs to be I can get back on the plan of taking it down to the frame and boxing it in and do it right I hope. If you folks know any other knowledgeable mechanics within a few hundred miles of North Texas I would love to have someone that really knows this stuff to look at first hand and make sure it is correct. Thanks again.
     
  10. Feb 14, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
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    You probably have a lot more experience than me on these so I apologize if I was incorrect on the transfer case type. The only reason I thought it was a Dans 20 is the below I got off the Novak website.

    Markings on the Dana 20 can vary, but most start with a C18-15-24... Some confuse them for a large case Dana 18 because of this. It is of note that the 20 was based off of the design of the 18 and Spicer used this numbering scheme throughout the span of the production of the Models 18 and 20, which for a time were built concurrently.
     
  11. Feb 15, 2017
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    Welcome from Oklahoma! I think your jeep and your business will be a great combo.
     
  12. Feb 15, 2017
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Welcome from Ga.
     
  13. Feb 15, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Yes, I think you are correct that Kevin does have a Dana 18. The later "big hole" D18 used the same case as the D20. Just as long as the diff and rear axle match as far as offset, things can be made to work.
    -Donny
     
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  14. Feb 15, 2017
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    North Central FL
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    Jun 15, 2003
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    Welcome from the other 71 vintage guy..
     
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  15. Feb 15, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
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    Thanks for the insight. Below is a better shot of the transfer case and also a more complete picture of the rear offset axle. I am going to try to bolt the transfer case in this weekend and see if this all fits together.

     
  16. Feb 15, 2017
    Kevin Kolb

    Kevin Kolb New Member

    Gainesville, Texas
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    In other news I went to a local shop called Dallas Offload this morning to see if they would take a look and they don't want to touch since it has been chopped on so much. Understandable but I think it can be fixed and working without too much trouble. Some other shots below of some of the challenges. It appears the radiator has been upgraded with an electric fan and it looks like interference with the belts. The project list is long...

     
  17. Feb 15, 2017
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    The engine looks like a 231 instead of a 225...
     
  18. Feb 15, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    Between the steering gear mounting at the frame, to the rear axle/spring over, I'm seeing some issues that aren't small by any means.
     
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  19. Feb 15, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    The axle offset could be a number of things...........the obvious is perhaps it's just offset by the mounts and springs.........or maybe the body tub is not centered or both?
    As I mentioned previously lots of things going on with that vehicle.........the good news........... is everything can be fixed.
     
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  20. Feb 16, 2017
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    I agree with Donny thinking that that rear axle is an offset rear from a quadratrac cj7. The rear frame on the later cjs (76 - 86) is wider so it may be that axle just does not fit between the earlier springs and therefore got shifted to the left - crazy.
     
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