1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

1970-'71 And 1972-'75 Cj-5 Vin / Date Databases

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by maurywhurt, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Dec 1, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    As some of you are aware, a couple of years ago I began helping Early CJ owners replace their original VIN stickers by providing the reproduction artwork and coordinating with a printer to produce the new stickers (see Dash Vin Sticker Artwork For 1970-1979 Cjs )

    As a byproduct of that effort I've gathered a number of images of original VIN stickers, both from the internet and from owners who wanted to have their original stickers replaced. Several people have asked if I'd created a database of the information gleaned from these original VIN sticker images, and I'm glad to say that I've finally gotten around to doing that.

    This information will primarily be useful in determining the approximate date (month and year) that a 1970-75 CJ-5 which is missing its original VIN sticker was manufactured. I thought I'd share what I've come up with here on this forum, as others may also find it helpful. Please note that no owner or location information is included in these databases. This is to ensure that no one could potentially use them to try to claim a Jeep they don't own.

    I've set up two databases, one for 1970-71 and one for 1972-75 CJ-5's. I used Google Sheets to create these, which will allow me to update them as additional images of original VIN stickers become available over time, and for the reader to see the most recently added information via the links below.

    As a preface, here's a scan of two pages from Mark Olsen's 2006 guide to decoding the 1971 and prior CJ serial numbers:

    [​IMG]


    When I first began the process of creating the reproduction VIN sticker formats, I initially thought that Kaiser started using VIN stickers on the CJ-5 during the 1969 model year. However, at this point I'm not aware of an original CJ-5 VIN sticker dated earlier than August 1969, which would be the beginning of the 1970 model year - so I'm now thinking that is likely when they were first used. (If images of any pre-Aug. 1969-dated original VIN stickers appear in the future, I'll revise the database title accordingly.)

    I've incorporated into this database the 1970-71 VIN numbers and dates that were gathered from ECJ5 members and included in Mark Olsen's 2006 Guide. I don't have photos of those stickers, but please feel free to send images and I will plug them into the database.


    Link to the 1970-'71 Database:

    1970-1971 JEEP CJ-5 VIN / DATE DATABASE - Google Drive



    Mark Olsen's guide to the 1972-'75 serial number decoding:


    [​IMG]

    At the outset of the 1972 model year, AMC began using sequential serial numbers on CJ-5's (starting with 00001, according to the above guide) at the beginning of each new model year. Previously, during 1971 and all prior model years, the serial number sequence was continued from the year before.


    Link to the 1972-'75 Database:

    1972-1975 JEEP CJ-5 VIN / DATE DATABASE - Google Drive


    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    CJMark, timgr, WYOMIKE and 2 others like this.
  2. Dec 2, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    22,714
    Note that starting in 1972, the sequential serial number made no distinction between model; the vehicles were numbered in the order they came off the assembly line. The model was included as a code in the VIN, ie "J2M835SE00001" is a Jeep (J) from 1972 (2) that's left hand drive with a 4-speed transmission built in Toledo (M) with model CJ-5 (83) and an open body (5), with the HD suspension and 4500# GVWR (S) equipped with a regular compression 232cid 6 (E) that's number 1 (00001) off the assembly line.

    Here's the VIN decoding from 1972:

    Jeep1972VINs (778 x 531).jpg

    This scheme, with some changes, continued through at least 1980. By 1982, Jeep had switched to a new scheme that includes a check digit (essentially a check sum, if you are familiar with that) intended to prevent creation of VINs for criminal purposes.
     
    maurywhurt and Twin2 like this.
  3. Dec 2, 2020
    William Lucas

    William Lucas New Member

    Birmingham, Alabama
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    I checked the list and noticed that the one you recently made for me wasn't on the 1970 to 71 database, 8305017 364299. Do you know if anyone has tried to develop a list of known Renegade I's?
     
  4. Dec 2, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Hi William, the reason yours wasn't included in the database is that you didn't have an image of the original VIN sticker to base the reproduction on. You sent a photo of the data plate from your engine compartment, which has the serial number but doesn't indicate an actual build date. I've only included images and info from original VIN stickers in the databases, vs. those of reproduction stickers on which the build date was estimated (i.e. wasn't known for sure).

    You might contact ECJ5 member Rubicloak and ask him about the Renegade 1 list....if anyone would know the answer to that question, it is he!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  5. Dec 2, 2020
    William Lucas

    William Lucas New Member

    Birmingham, Alabama
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks.
     
  6. Dec 12, 2020
    mrtii

    mrtii 1972 cj51986 cj7 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    gilroy, California
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    154
    I have been collecting the same data as you have for a while now . I would like to share what I have collected . I also would like to add engine manufacturing date as part of this. All in good fun I think
     
  7. Dec 13, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Great! Please feel free to send any additional original VIN sticker images you’ve collected from the 1970-75 model years, and I’ll be glad to add them to these databases. The same goes for anyone else with images of original VIN stickers they’d like to share. Please either post them in this thread or send them to my email address, snoopy2x @ gmail.com (just remove the spaces before and after the “@“ symbol).

    If you’re also collecting engine manufacturing dates relative to serial numbers and vehicle build dates, it would be interesting to document that information in a separate database which could begin earlier than 1970, i.e. before the VIN stickers came into use. Toward that end, you may already be aware of this chart relating 1965-67 serial numbers to build month & year:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  8. Dec 13, 2020
    mrtii

    mrtii 1972 cj51986 cj7 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    gilroy, California
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    154
    I will keep that in mind as I collect info, ie original dot stickers and eng build date tags
     
    maurywhurt likes this.
  9. Dec 13, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,869
    Here's another 71 sticker:
    [​IMG]

    And the data plate to go with it:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    maurywhurt likes this.
  10. Dec 13, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Thanks, Fireball - I've added it to the '70-'71 Database.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    Fireball likes this.
  11. Dec 13, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684

    Tim, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the serial numbering system AMC Jeep used during this era. Please take a look at the second and third serial numbers and build dates in the section of the 1972-75 database pictured below. Do you (or for that matter, does anyone else reading this) have a guess as to why this apparent anomaly might have occurred?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
  12. Dec 15, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    22,714
    Mmm, I don't have an insight to this. December and January are pretty close in time. Maybe some of these vehicles sat around the factory incomplete for a while, and the last step to finish was the VIN sticker? Thus they'd get the sequential number as (mostly) assembled and sticker applied out the door? I can't imagine a circumstance where the sequential number was intentionally out of sequence.
     
    maurywhurt likes this.
  13. Dec 15, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Thanks, Tim. I've been thinking along similar lines, looking at it from the standpoint of the build dates being out of sequence, rather than the serial numbers per se.

    It's possible that s/n 34345 was originally scheduled for completion during Dec. 1973, but its completion was delayed. This delay could, for example, have been due to some special-order part being unavailable until January of '74. Maybe 34345 was then removed from the assembly line and placed somewhere awaiting that part. The sticker reflecting its serial number, which was of course already assigned and stamped into the frame, could then have been printed and applied in January, when the vehicle rejoined the assembly line and was completed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  14. Dec 15, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,869
    Having been around assembly lines before, a vehicle will get set aside for rework if something goes wrong on the line. Things like cross-threaded bolt, a bent/broken components, ...etc. You can't slow the line down for one vehicle, so it goes through the rest of the assembly process with as much work getting done as possible and is then pulled aside at the end of the line. A team in the rework area will fix the initial issue and then finish assembling the vehicle by hand if needed. That could easily push it into the next month. If the stickers were applied when the Jeep rolled out the door, it could explain this.
     
    ojgrsoi and maurywhurt like this.
  15. Jan 4, 2021
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2021 Sponsor

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,638
    [​IMG]
    Here is my 74
     
  16. Jan 4, 2021
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Thanks, Jeff, and I've added it into the database.
     
  17. Mar 10, 2021
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member

    The Idaho side...
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    427
    Is it an early '70? . . . or a late '69? I realize there may not be a definitive answer to that question, but I'm curious enough to give it a try. I'm aware of a CJ5, w/ Dauntless, 2 piece rear 44, no evidence of there ever being a sticker on the dashboard, front side lights on the hood, not the fenders, a "Kaiser Jeep Corporation" plate on the passenger side firewall above the paint (413) and trim (291) sticker that begins "The manufacturer certifies . . ." and the first three of the 6 digit sequential serial number are 359xxx. I see that the '70 chart only goes back to 360xxx. I know that may be incomplete. This Jeep is currently titled as a '70. However, we've all heard the stories of dealers retitling an end of the year model to the next model year. Given the details I've listed above, this may be one of them. Sorry, no pictures at the moment, maybe later. TIA for all replies that help sort this out. Jack
     
  18. Mar 10, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    22,714
    AMC bought Jeep from Kaiser in 1970, and the first year where VIN numbers had distinct model years was 1972. I expect thei went along with the AMC way of doing things, which mimicked the big three's ways. Prior to that, changes sort of came along when they were ready. There's an expression - "That's something of a distinction without a difference."
     
    jbjeeps likes this.
  19. Mar 10, 2021
    jbjeeps

    jbjeeps Member

    The Idaho side...
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    427
    Thanks for the reply Tim. This may be one of those "questions without an answer". But the rest of the story is, I just bought this Jeep and if I can definitively identify it as a '69, I will apply to the state to have the title corrected. Did it once before with the '63 Tux, that had been titled as '64. But it is not a '64 Mk IV, it is a '63 Mk III and now has a correct title.
     
  20. Mar 10, 2021
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Hi Jack, Great question, and I hope you're able to find the answer!

    The earliest serial number currently in the 1970-71 database, 360577, is simply the earliest known CJ (by members of this forum, as confirmed by the original VIN decal) that's definitely a 1970 model. It's certainly possible that serial number 359xxx could also be a 1970 - though based on what's known right now, it could just as easily be a 1969.
     

Share This Page

New Posts