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M38a1 Tub On Cj5?

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Jim Eyster, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. Jan 13, 2022
    Jim Eyster

    Jim Eyster Member 2022 Sponsor

    Central Ohio
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    How long was the M38a1 tub with welded battery box and floor panels used on the CJ5 before CJ5s got their own tub?
     
  2. Jan 13, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Floor? You mean the deep gas tank well? Never in a CJ, AKAIK.
     
  3. Jan 13, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    The battery box cover carried up to '64 or so, not sure what you mean by the floors.
     
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  4. Jan 13, 2022
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Haven't all the 5's had a tailgate? That would mean they have always had their own tub.
     
  5. Jan 13, 2022
    Jim Eyster

    Jim Eyster Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Good point, but early CJ5’s had the “vestigial tail” of the battery box cover welded into place from the M38a1. For accuracy of restoration, I wanted to know when this was eliminated.
     
  6. Jan 13, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    AFAIK the solid back panel was first offered for the CJ in 1973 (aside from the Renegade). All CJ-5s prior to that had a tailgate. Thus their own tub. There was never a M38A1 tub used on a CJ-5, AFAIK. Different from the start.

    Vestigial features persisted from the M38A1, like the welded battery box cover, snorkel hatch and bow pockets. But there was never a CJ-5 tub that was identical to the M38A1 tub. Again, AFAIK, but I'm certain about this.

    Pretty sure we have covered the longevity of these features in previous posts. Suggest you search https://www.bing.com/search?q=site:earlycj5.com+battery+box+cover
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  7. Jan 13, 2022
    Jim Eyster

    Jim Eyster Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Informative, thanks!
     
  8. Jan 13, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    I think what he meant by the reference to the floor was early CJ5s have a panel welded in where the sump would go on an M38A1. My 67 CJ5 has this panel.

    They were still building M38A1s for the Marines into the 60s and the bodies were pretty much the same other than the battery box on the cowl, the slave port on the right fender, and the tailgate for the CJ. It makes sense they would use the same floor pan, just patch the sump opening.

    As noted the CJ5s up into the earlier 60s also still had the snorkel hatch but with a piece to cover it.
     
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  9. Jan 13, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I don't think my '56 does. (?)
     
  10. Jan 13, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

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    Odd, but I have never looked at a 56 CJ5 floor so I don't know about that.

    Both of the 67 CJ5s I have do have that panel welded in the floor so I assumed that was a carry over from M38A1, may have been a 60s thing.
     
  11. Jan 13, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Along with the battery box lid (yes, Howard is correct in post#3), there was also a raised mirror mounting boss on the drivers side of the cowl that carried over to sometime in the '64 model year. The newly introduced '64 Tuxedo Park MKlV seems to have been the first CJ5s to get the new body panels without the welded battery lid/raised mirror boss. Regular CJ5s continued well into '64 before these features disappeared for the '65s.
    As far as the 2-piece flat floor on the drivers side (under the fuel tank), I know these were features from at least 1960 through around 1967, maybe later. My '66 certainly has this. There were a lot of interchangable body panels between the CJ5 and M38a-1.
    I believe the '71 Renegade solid tail panel was basically " borrowed " from the M38a-1, even down to the hat channel re-enforcement across the top section, but it was lacking the braces/hat channels for supporting the jerry can and spare tire of the military model. Lots of cross-pollination between the civillian and military models.
    -Donny
     
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  12. Jan 14, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The flat panel vs. the sump was a CJ5 feature from the get go. Interestingly the factory never bothered to put the "missing" driver side body mount body in.
     
  13. Jan 14, 2022
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    Are you trying to convert an A1 body to a CJ5?
     
  14. Jan 14, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Jeep cut short (or did not form) the M38A1 driver's floor panel to eliminate the sump for the gas tank, then added a second flat panel for under the gas tank? Interesting. The drivers floor became one panel by the '70s, no seam under the tank.
     
  15. Jan 14, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

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    Not sure about foreign contracts, but the last US military contact for M38A1 was for the Marines in the mid sixties. The Marines were not impressed with the M-151 and continued using the M38A1 instead.

    AFAIK, by 1970 there were no M38A1s being produced so it makes sense they would streamline production of the CJ5 eliminating the welded in floor panel.
     
  16. Jan 14, 2022
    Jim Eyster

    Jim Eyster Member 2022 Sponsor

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    No, I’ve got an early CJ5 with a later tub and I’m thinking of replacing the tub. I wanted to be sure the new tub was more representative of what would have actually came stock on the Jeep. Being true to form, I’m probably worried about things that don’t really matter.
     
  17. Jan 14, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

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    A tub from a M38A1 would fit your early CJ5 frame, if that is what you were worried about.
     
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  18. Jan 14, 2022
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    In the grander scheme of things if things don't matter to you then they really don't matter. What matters is if you are happy with your Jeep, and that you know what you have and how "correct" it is, and if you're satisfied with it.
     
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  19. Jan 14, 2022
    Tom in RI

    Tom in RI Member

    Rhode Island
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    • CJ5 Faux battery box cover on passenger side cowl, 1955-1965
    • Slave plug mounting spot - big round thing in front of door was not on the CJ5 - tailgate covered, gauges in the M38 were in a panel so there’s a big rectangular cutout in an A1 dash. Gas tank sump was commented above.
    • The hood snorkel provision was on the 65 CJ5 but still on this 66 factory photo.
    https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/b5.jpg

    upload_2022-1-14_16-22-43.jpeg
     
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  20. Jan 14, 2022
    Zoomer

    Zoomer eJeeper (walking) 2020 Sponsor

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    I've read this thread again and for some reason still don't understand the intent of your questions. If you have a cj5 and are doing a restoration, an m38a1 tub could be modified, but I think you're better off starting with a cj5 tub. From what I understand, no early cj5's had a solid rear panel except the 1971 Renegade 2, no early cj5s had the recess on the passenger side the m38a1 has, no early cj5s had the deep well for the fuel tank, and only the earlier years of the early cj5s had the welded battery box lid.

    If you are making a nice driver, m38a1 tub would probably work fine. If you are doing a correct restoration, you'd have some massaging to do.....
     
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