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Rear Hub Split

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Andrew Theros, Aug 29, 2021.

  1. Aug 29, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member

    Los Osos, CA
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
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    109
    Hi everybody!
    I am back with good news and bad.
    From my rotating squeak threadRotating Squeak?
    I have replaced rear bearings, cups and seals. While I am this deep, might as well do brakes too.
    D9E91D8D-F280-4ABB-B60F-CCA7CFDAD53C.jpeg
    All my brake parts from Walcks and amazon showed up yesterday, so this morning was assembly day.
    Got as far as the pass side hub…
    Looky what I found when cleaning it up for installation
    741EF0A0-C760-491E-8512-96D66D0140D0.jpeg

    Before I post a WTB, do I (or should I) replace in pairs? I think it would make me feel better, but my wallet may not agree.
    If I am going that far, should the drums be replaced too (P-side feels smooth, D-side has deep grooves)?

    Seems like the P-side has been worked in the past as some stuff looked and felt newer (hub popped off of drum easily in this side). P-side also has the split hub. I didn’t see a crack on D-side, but I was admittedly discouraged…

    Look forward to your opinions!

    Thanks,
    Andy

    BTW these are 10” brakes on the rear.
     
  2. Aug 29, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Don't know about your hub question. However, you need to do two things with the drums. First they must be measured to see if they are within spec. You are allowed 0.060" oversize in diameter, so 10.060" maximum. If the surface is rough, they need to be turned (surfaced). You always surface or use new drums when you replace shoes. Most parts stores that do any work on cars and all auto machine shops will have a brake lathe. Once surfaced, it must be within that size spec.
     
    Andrew Theros likes this.
  3. Aug 29, 2021
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Your hub came off easily because of the crack. If it was mine I'd get 2 new hubs and drums.
     
  4. Aug 29, 2021
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    The problem with new rear hubs is going to be the quality with the off shore process.
    Lots of folks have returned new hubs because the taper and/or inside diameter isn't correct.
    And they wouldn't seat correctly on the axle shaft.
    If you go this route, probably new keys as well.
     
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  5. Aug 30, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    You may already know this, but when you go to install the new hubs do it right or you will find out how they get split the hard way.

    They get split when someone puts the Woodruff key in the slot and then slides the drum over it. As it is tightened the hub will push the key ahead of it, the key will ramp up in the slot and serve as a wedge to start the split in that very thin metal at the wide end of the opening. The hub will seem to tighten up, but as the split worsens it will get loose enough to create a dangerous condition.

    Always put the hub on the axle shaft first, align the slot, tap in the key, install the washer and nut, then tighten to 150 lbs. Do it in this order and the hub and key are pushed together and prevents the split. Once tightened to 150 lbs check to see if the castle nut aligns with the hole for the cotter pin, it probably won't be, and you must tighten it a little at a time until it is aligned, NEVER loosen the nut to align for the pin or you hub will loosen and get destroyed another way.

    New hubs are not cheap, but used ones in good condition can be found. I am picking up an axle at the Willys Reunion in Fulton MO in a couple of weeks. If it has good hubs I can let you have one or both for little more than shipping cost.
     
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  6. Aug 30, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Looking again at your picture I see what appears to be the Wagner 10" brake, if so where did you find the adjuster levers?

    I have searched high and low for those and have never been able to find them.
     
  7. Aug 30, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    Looks like you found the source of your squeak.
     
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  8. Aug 30, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member

    Los Osos, CA
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    I couldn’t find them either, those are the old ones, scrubbed and rattle can painted.
     
  9. Aug 30, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member

    Los Osos, CA
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    With that and the bearing feeling like it was lubed with gravel…I am confident that the squeak will be gone, whenever she gets off of the stands….
     
  10. Aug 30, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    Without the taper able to tightly wedge onto the shaft (due to the crack), it was pivoting/flexing on the shaft.

    And/or if the key was still in too far, the weight was riding on the keyway (and the opposing taper face) rather than the whole taper. The hub could wobble since there are two opposing pressure points, rather than a tight fit.

    I’d bet good money that hub was the source of your squeak. I’ve had the same squeak, and I’m a bit disappointed in myself for not suggesting that from the start.
     
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  11. Aug 30, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    Both rear hubs on the CJ2A I have were split and very loose when I first started the rehab on that Jeep. And the bozo who had worked on it did not install the cotter pins. Because of the direction of rotation the driver side had loosened the nut to where it was very close to falling off. They will squeak until they fall off, and then they make a different sound :D. The keyway on the driver side axle was completely hammered, and I had to replace the axle as well as the two hubs.
     
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  12. Aug 30, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member

    Los Osos, CA
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    Looking like I’ll replace both sides and drums.
    If I go new, can I “pull” new studs in with an impact? Or am I better off just taking the whole pile to a shop?

    Thanks,
    Andy
     
  13. Aug 30, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    I don't think you can "pull" the studs into the hubs with an impact wrench, but then I have never tried to do it that way.

    Best way is to press them in with a shop press, which is something I keep thinking about getting, but I have installed a great many wheel studs with careful application of a BFH, you just have to make sure the hub flange is supported around the hole to prevent distortion, and drive them in straight as you can. Once started they usually will drive in fairly easy.
     
  14. Aug 30, 2021
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    They make a little tool for pulling wheel studs in. I don't remember how much it was but got it from Matco, or snapon truck. Don't think it was one of theirs. Just something they carried.

    [​IMG]

    There's a bearing on the backside that allows the housing to spin with the lugnut. Use a HAND ratchet and it will pull it into the hub.
     
  15. Aug 30, 2021
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2021 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    I want one of those!
     
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  16. Aug 31, 2021
    45es

    45es Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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  17. Aug 31, 2021
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Lisle. Should've known..(y)
     
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  18. Sep 2, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I would be looking for at least 1 original used hub, or NOS (new old stock). The replacement parts are typically made overseas and don't fit corrctly, and are of questionable quality. An old used hub thats not cracked is the way to go.
    A used hub should already have studs, just make sure they are right-hand threads. With 10" brakes, yours should be RH studs on all four wheels.
    -Donny
     
  19. Sep 2, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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  20. Sep 2, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member

    Los Osos, CA
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    Thank you @timgr !
    I called and talked with Pete briefly, he was un sure of them fitting. Cool guy, l would really rather send him my $ for NOS than roll the dice on new reproduction.
    Do you (or @Keys5a or @oldtime) know that these M38A1 hubs will fit my 1969 tapered shaft D44?
     
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