Maybe I'm an idiot... Locking hub removal

Never thought I'd be stopped dead just trying to remove a locking hub. For the life of me, I can't figure out what's keeping this thing in. Here are a few pictures...

The over-all shot:



I have removed two snap rings already. One was around the axle shaft, as usual. And the other was around the outer "gear"-looking thing on the very end:



The only thing I can find is this small tab of metal in one of the roller bearing slots. I can press it down with a screwdriver, and the whole assembly will rotate. I'm guessing this is the culprit, but I can't figure out how it works. The picture is a little fuzzy, but I think you can get the idea.



These are stock Warn locking hubs. Six external bolts (rather than allen-heads).

HELP!!!!!!

 

Looks like a Lock-O-Matic. I have em on my JEEP. Thinking, thinking....
I always removed the aluminum outer part, the snap ring that holds everything to the shaft, and then the rest came off as an assembly( the steel housing, roller bearings, etc.) and I disassembled it from there. There are nylon " clutches" held in place by a small dia. spring that wraps around the entire assembly just inside the axle flange there. Maybe that spring is broken and bining up the works. I think that should come off there. Don't think I missing anything.

 

Never seen Warns built like that.

 

Small metal springy tab holds the inner and outer parts of the bearing cage together. It won't come out till the whole thing is off. By rights that should slide off the shaft now unless something is broken or misaligned. Any reason for taking it apart besides reg service? Hub not functioning right?

 

could it just be rusted on the axle?

 

Warn Lock-O-Matics
seems to me there are 3 small set screws that go into the special outer wheel bearing nut & washer
been too long
do you see 3 set screws if you look into area between the hub body and the wheel hub?

 

Tim, the piece you are trying to remove there is a sprag clutch. The 10 rollers you have out are what creates the "automatic" function of the hub. As you engage the front axle, the rollers get into a bit of a bind and "lock" (won't roll) against the shaft, so the whole mechanism then screws itself into the locked hub mode. Does the same function as when you engage them manually. Once you have all the pieces out and cleaned up, you can work the hub and see how it all happens. At this point I either sound like a jackass or that's how it really goes. I learned quite a bit when I got into mine. Prolly didn't learn near enough to be explaining this stuff, but this is how I recall it.

The piece you are pressing on is a spring which is a part of the clutch function. It releases the cage and rollers once the hub is locked up. It doesn't have to come out. At least mine didn't. The "gear looking thing" is what locks the hub together when it mates up with the smaller rollers in the other half of the hub. In free wheeling mode the "gear" part sits back away from the rollers, so, no drive.

Now, about getting the sprag clutch and the "gear looking thing" to come off.... I think you have one more retaining ring to go yet. It should be inside the "cage" of the clutch. And if you see a round washer shaped piece with an O-ring around its circumference, you should find three small holes about a half inch or less apart on the face. The middle hole has a small set screw in it. Odd size, as I recall, like 9/64? Loosen it, use the other two holes to unscrew it from the hub. (drive it with a small punch) Behind that would be a flat washer with many holes in the face. The set screw should lock into one of these holes when you go back together. If you have none of this, well, never mind. What I'm having trouble with here is why your clutch didn't come off when you took the hub apart. Mine all came out as a unit, then I took it apart on the bench. I realize yours is a different setup than what I have, but the general construction looks much the same. Now I wish I had taken pix......

Hope I haven't totally blown it out my wazoo here. But, if I have, it won't be the first time for sure.

 

Oh, and another thing; while you are this far into it, separate the selector knob from the outer housing. I was chicken until I got lots of encouragement here. Turns out there wasn't anything scary in there after all. You will need to loosen up the area where the screw that holds the knob to the housing is staked in, (I used a die grinder)then unscrew the flathead allen screw and persuade the knob to push on out the face of the housing. There is an O-ring around the knob, and it may be rotten. Any bearing house should be able to get you some more. The reason for doing this is because it is here that the crud builds up and makes the hub hard to turn. When you go back together, be sure to stake the screw again, so it doesn't come out when it shouldn't oughta....

Stu

 

Good grief.... Why do I have to have the odd-ball hubs? And the week of Tellico no less.

I'm trying to remove them to swap to 11" brakes. Stu - thanks so much for all of the info. I'm going to print it out and take it to out to the garage with me tonight. If I can't get the hub off pretty quick, I'll just reassemble and make this Tellico trip with 10" brakes. I have too many other small things to do by Thursday evening to get bogged down here. Afterwards, I'll probably just convert it over to the "regular" Warn hubs.

 

I had Lock O Matics on my rig. When I put in the Powerlok i had to get rid of them as the Powerlok caused them to stay locked all the time. I imagine the same would be true with any sort of automatic locker.

 

I think the hub is locked right now. As I turned it last night, I noticed that the front driveshaft would turn also. This tells me that the hub is locked to the axleshaft.

Does it have to be unlocked in order to come out? You mentioned that the "small metal tab thingy" is what would release to allow the hub to unlock. Just brainstorming (daydreaming) here and thinking that maybe it has to release before the unit will come off?

 

How about engaging 4 wheel and lock up the axle, allowing you to turn the hub back and forth to free it up?

Just a thought.

 

I'll sure give it a try...

 

Tim, I can't think and type at the same time, so bear with me, please. Your hub would already be unlocked, if all the internals are out of it since it is separated from the drive mechanism. The unlocking business I was referring to was only about the sprag clutch itself. These clutches only work in one direction (forward in our case), so the hub will never unlock on its own.

Turning the driveshaft; were you turning the axle? If so, that's fine. If you were turning the hub clutch mechanism, I am way confused, since you have removed the drive rollers from it.

I am thinking that there is still some hardware inside, around the axle shaft. Looking for that round piece with the setscrew.

Be wary of anything I say, since I have almost no experience with hub internals other than my own, and even then I'm relying on a somewhat diluted memory if you get my drift........

If all else fails, and you want to ditch these hubs, please put me on the list.....
Of course before you can ditch them, you gotta get 'em off, and then you will see why there ain't no need to get rid of them. They are sturdy and they don't necessarily make 'em like that anymore. In my opinion, I couldn't care less if the automatic feature works or not. I always locked them in manually before diving into the hole, rather than diving into the hole to lock them when it was too late, if they hadn't worked.........