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'66 Cj5 Tux Resto-mod

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by truckee4x4, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Feb 9, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    When you say it cuts out the tail and park lights, do you mean the dimmer filaments in addition to the brighter turn/stop light filaments? If so something is wrong with the light wiring. The park/tail filaments should be isolated from the turn/stop filaments. This can indicate a bad ground out at a light.

    I would use a jumper power each of the park and turn signal light wires from under the dash one by one to make sure the proper things are lighting up at the corners. If you power the parking/tail light wires, the dim filaments should light up. If you power the turn/brake light wires for the front/rear, the bright filaments should light up. If that's not working for the left side, nothing you do with the switch will fix it.

    The constant 12v at the indicator light makes me think the switch is working. (At least if if goes out when the switch is not actuated).

    The brake light switch simply connects the two terminals when it detects pressure. There is no "ground" as such. Basically the circuit works like this:
    • An always hot with the key off wire connects to one terminal of the brake pressure switch.
    • A wire then goes from the other terminal of the brake light switch to the brown wire on the Spartan. (Since the switch is simply closing the circuit between the two terminals it doesn't matter which terminal you use for what.)
    • When the Spartan is in the normal park position, the brown wire has continuity to the left/right rear stop/turn filaments. If you press the brake pedal, the circuit is completed like this: battery -> brake light switch -> Spartan switch -> both rear bulb bright filaments -> ground.
    • When the turn signal is actuated in one direction like left, the spartan disconnects the left rear turn signal from the incoming brake wire and connects it to the flasher and left front turn signal. Now the left side circuit is completed as follows: Battery -> ignition switch (needs to be on) -> flasher X terminal -> Flasher L terminal (which provides intermittent cycling power under load) -> Spartan switch -> front and rear turn left signal bulb elements -> ground. The right side rear bright filament stays connected to the brown brake wire so it still activates solid with the brakes while the left flashes with the turn signals.
    • Signalling to the right does the opposite behavior.
     
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  2. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    OK over lunch I double checked all the grounds around the jeep lights and at first go now I have both tail lights flashing, and the flasher making tick/tick…but no LF signal light. I stared at it for a while and then realized that with just the brown wire connected to the black wire, the left was brighter than the right. I switched the black and red wires and now everything works perfectly. Thanks fireball!!
     
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  3. Feb 9, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Whoohoo! :bananatool:
     
  4. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    @Fireball what do you suggest as a sure-fire way to keep the light housings grounded - external toothed lock washers around their mounting posts?
     
  5. Feb 9, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That's what they typically used from the factory. You could always put a dab of clear silicon over the tightend nut/washer to keep corrosion at bay since the washer will cut through the paint to make contact.
     
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  6. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I'm digging through three layers of clear coat, color, and two coats of primer.....
     
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  7. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Also - curious, do you butt crimp and heat shrink all your wires once cut to length or do them in disconnects?
     
  8. Feb 9, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I typically only use disconnects in places the factory would have like lights, switches, whatever. Where I'm piecing together an otherwise continuous run of wire, I butt-splice.

    If I'm not using a large multi-pin connector, I've switched to using heat-shrink crimp connectors with the proper crimping tool. Easy to install, decent looks, and seal weather tight:
    The crimp-on bullet connectors are generally compatible with the original Jeep connectors when hooking up lights and such.
     
  9. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks. I already have all that, nice to know which style you use.
     
  10. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    @timsresort curious how you do your light wiring - disconnects or butt splices?
     
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  11. Feb 9, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Sorry I have not been any help so far, sounds like you have it now. I use a combination, as Fireball said, I also like the heat shrink butt splices for stuff you figure is going to be there for a long time, or hard to get to. I have used some bullet connectors in dry areas, where it would be nice to not have to cut a butt splice if you want to replace a component. Way back, I had trouble with my original main engine harness at the firewall plastic plug. That thing was a piece of crap, and had my 20 year old brain wondering why the jeep shuts off. So to answer the question, taillights-butt splice with heat shrink, grill-you can take them apart at the terminal block to remove so I butt splice there also (right at the lamp). Motor- I run straight to the component, no splice. Interior stuff, like I have a harness for an ARB fridge and solar panel-bullet connectors.
     
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  12. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Tim.

    moved onto the horn now. What’s confusing me is that there are two wires in the painless harness, one says “to horn B +” , and the other says “to horn switch.”

    What doesn’t make any sense to me though is that the horn B+ wire does not have 12 V when the ignition ACC switch is on, but the horn switch wire does.

    So is the correct way to wire this that:
    • the horn switch wire goes to the wire coming from the steering column out the bottom of the Ross box,
    • the horn B+ wire goes to the positive terminal on the horn, and the negative terminal on the horn just gets grounded?
     
  13. Feb 9, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The horn button on the column grounds the wire going through the Ross box.

    The factory circuit is: battery 12v -> one horn terminal -> out other horn terminal -> ross box wire -> horn button -> ground.

    The horn always has power to it and the button completes the circuit by grounding it.

    It's possible the painless harness has a horn relay and then it would probably be wired as you said. The 12v horn switch wire would get grounded by the button to energize the relay. The relay would then send 12v to the horn that would need one of its terminals grounded.
     
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  14. Feb 9, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I think the painless might not be wiring the horn the way jeep did. A normal jeep uses the horn switch as a ground to complete the circuit, (with hot straight to the horn body). Painless ( I believe) uses a horn relay and switches the hot instead of the ground. The switch would be wired as the negative side of the relay. Clear as mud? I'll look for my schematic of mine.
     
  15. Feb 9, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I Figured it out just as you were typing that – there is indeed a relay in the Painless and I heard it clicking when I wired the column / Ross box wire to the (-) terminal on the horn and connected the “Horn switch“ 12v hot wire from the harness to the Horn +, and just heard the relay clicking but no horn.

    so I figured the relay must send the 12V to the b+ wire only when the button is pressed, and I wired both painless horn wires to the + terminal on the horn, and then the wire at the bottom Of the column to the - terminal on the horn and it sounds when the button is depressed at the top of the column.

    stoked - I should be all set to cut this wiring to length and start finalizing it tomorrow. Sure wish I didn’t have to go to work!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
  16. Feb 9, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Ha, you and I just said the same thing. And now I remember grounding the horn, because it sits isolated.
     
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  17. Feb 9, 2022
    timsresort

    timsresort Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    No freaking kidding! We have this great weather, and I have a cage to paint...can't use the ol' cough at work because that will get you quarantined.
     
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  18. Feb 10, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Also spent some time at the DMV today and thanks to @bluesmokemonster for graciously donating his family’s old CA 1963 plates, I’ve got some legit tags:

    3AFFD269-DE18-4077-9B05-22CE2BE7ED93.jpeg

    And I solved my license plate light restoration problem by - finding NOS one on eBay! So now I’ve got a couple of spares and some parts too if anyone is in need let me know.
    6FA0D18F-8876-4768-B7CC-24AC2976FFEA.jpeg
    (thanks @Uncle Vin for the tip!)
     
  19. Feb 10, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    X2

    You're really not using the relay the way you have it wired. You're powering the horn with the switch feed (which then triggers the relay and sort of powers the horn in parallel if the horn doesn't have too much resistance). It will work, but it's not proper. You should wire it the first way you had it and put a short ground wire from one of the horn terminals to a horn bracket bolt. That way the switch powers the relay with the button and the relay powers the horn. They are supposed to be independent circuits.
     
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  20. Feb 10, 2022
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Funny, I actually thought about it some more and came to the same conclusion (separate them and ground the horn). I went to go wire it up this way but it’s too cold out in the garage so it will have to wait until morning.
     
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