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Top Support Attachment To Body

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Wirework, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Nov 14, 2016
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
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    Aug 28, 2012
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    As a sailer, I'm considering a sewing machine capable of sail repairs and even making sails from sailcloth. Covers, Biminis, dodgers and similar items are easy and the cost of the machine pays for itself after just one or two major jobs. With your patterns I'll likely go over the top and buy it to try my hand at a top for my CJ as well, given it can't be more difficult than a Bimini.

    Also help make me feel better about wasting money on the bows and rods.
     
  2. Nov 14, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    :)
    You might want to hold off until someone contributes an old/unusable top I can take apart to model the patern!

    I also have access to an industrial sewing machine via a (different) brother who does car interiors, and via a TechShop membership. At TechShop I can also laser cut the cloth and bend the support tubes. I can also use their CAD/CAM software to draw the paterns and program the laser. I might be able to just trace the originals to capture them... we'll see...

    I will be able to share the software paterns.
     
  3. Nov 17, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    I just bought a used 1970 "Jeep" brand top and doors complete with frames ($225), but it turned out to not to use the type of support rods I want. (The mount brackets were't in the picture.) 'Not sure if it can be used as a base patern to modify or not. At least the doors are universal (I hope). I'll try to attach it and see how close it is.

    It is actually repairable (new clear plastic all around plus some seam stiching). I can fix it and resell it when I'm done with it.
     
  4. Nov 17, 2016
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Weatherford, TX
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    Dec 30, 2002
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    The newer tops connect like the aluminum supports shown below. I am guessing that is what you purchased.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Thanks for the illustration, Mark.

    I got to try out the 1970 "Jeep" brand used top I bought on Craig's List. Some of the hardware seems to be missing, in particular the upper door hinge mounting bracket at the windshield, and the windshield bracket which captures the front end of the horizontal rod meeting the top of the door. (Unfortunately, I cannot contact the seller. The Craig's List seller's phone no longer works... I've never had a good experience using Craig's List...)

    The soft top support frame I acquired appears to be exactly like the illustration "ojgrsoi" (Mark) offers immediately above, except for the door hinge. My lower door hinge post inserts into the little well in the body at the forward bottom edge of the doorway. You can see the lower well as a black dot in the body's lower door jamb's top edge in above illustration. Mine doesn't use the lower door hinge detailed in his illustration (shown mounted on the outside face of the Jeep.) The soft door has a forward flap on the lower door half with female snaps which mate with male snaps already installed on the vertical door jamb, also shown on the side of the door jamb in the above illustration. This rules out the possibility of an external lower hinge forward of the lower door jamb snaps.

    Also, my upper door post has an upper hinge branch as shown in this photo:

    [​IMG]

    Could anyone please let me know how / where does this hinge post branch attach to the windshield edge? Also how/ where does the horizontal upper door jamb rod attach to the windshield edge? They appear to be a few inches apart... two brackets?

    Just like the illustration, I have the aluminum windshield edge hardware with the long extruded slotted open cylinder which accepts the upper angled edge of the soft door, but the aluminum hardware doesn't seem to provide a mount for the upper door hinge rod, or a mount for the horizontal (H) support rod end (i.e. the horizontal bar which a closed door meets at the top). You'll notice the illustration doesn't provide any detail about the upper hinge attachment, or about the H support rod end attachment.

    Any additional detail / information would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  6. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    -Donny, I transfered the external rear bow sockets from my old jeep to the new body, but I didn't bolt them in exactly the same place. Now I'm wondering if I screwed up...

    In the OLD body, the bolted-on rear sockets were located exactly on the corner, which made their centers wider apart (side to side) than the welded-in forward bow sockets.

    On the NEW body the bolted-on rear sockets are now located closer to the tailgate. So now both the front welded-in sockets, and back bolted-on sockets are the same distance apart (side to side).

    Do you happen to know, is that the wrong way to locate those rear bolted-on sockets?

    I noticed in some illustrations, the front bows seem to have a dog leg bend where they come out of the welded-in forward sockets, which would move their vertical section more outboard, which might align them with a rear bolted-on socket when located on the true corner, ...like my OLD body's rear bow socket location. If so, I screwed up the location on the NEW body and I need to move them.

    Thoughts? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  7. Nov 18, 2016
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    Jan 4, 2016
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    The diagram posted above is for the later (76-83) cj5 and would be different from the 55-75 cj5. The top hinges usually bolt through the side of the windshield frame. I believe the holes are factory placed (a few inches down from the top - maybe 1 1/4 inches apart). The upper hinge rod on the door will slide up into this hing until the lower rod clears the door opening then slides down into lower hinge. For the rods over the door I have seen some cup brackets to receive the rods which bolt through the front of the windshield frame (again I believe there may be factory holes). My last bestop (from the 80's) used an eyebolt throught the windshield frame - the rods had a right angle bend at the front which rested in the eyebolt. I have a few windshield frames buried in my shed I could try and get some pictures and possibly some parts if you need them.
     
  8. Nov 18, 2016
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
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    I have the same top on my jeep. The so called lower hinge is the upper hinge and mounts on the inside upper edge of the windshield. As far as the horizontal bar that forms the top of the door frame, there is a plastic triangle that bolts to the windshield that has a socket to secure the rod.
    Note: the illustration above is Not for the later model jeep. The doors on them didn't have the forward flap that slides into the track.
     
  9. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
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    'Just a note to let you know I hope to duplicate your top support arangement and top and doors. If you have a local guy sew them maybe he'd be willing to do 2 at the same time and split his pattern making and setup time between two tops, so both sets would be cheaper.

    Interested?

    When do you expect to have them made?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  10. Nov 18, 2016
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    Jan 4, 2016
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    I was thinking it looked like the later style because it looked like it used a separate channel to receive the front of the top. but I agree I have never seen a later top that used a track on the upper door.
     
  11. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Can you tell me where the external rear bow sockets (pockets) are located. Are they on the "exact" corners or located a bit closer to the tailgate? Closer to the tailgate would align them with the welded-in bow socket. My rear bow socket bolts on and I'm not sure about the correct location. As I mention elsewhere in this post, forward bows using the welded-in socket seem in photos to have a dog led bend right where they exit the pocket, which moves their vertical upright section more outboard. Have you noticed that? If yours have the dog leg does that make the forward bow's width match the rear bow's width?

    Thanks.
     
  12. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Framer Mike P, thanks for the quick reply.

    The seller told me the top was a 1970 "Jeep" brand top (it has a AMC logo stitched into it), I have a 1969 jeep so it should have fit. But it doesn't quite fit. I thought maybe the poor fit was a shrinkage issue... But I can't quite tell until I have the upper hinge and horizontal support rod installed and get it all properly alligned.
     
  13. Nov 18, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks Original86.

    So for the horizontal support rod, I'm missing a plastic triangle bracket with a horizontal socket.

    Can you tell me, does the upper door hinge rod slide into an angled hole drilled in to the windshield inside edge or is there another bracket/hinge mounted there with a socket in it to receive the door's upper hinge rod? Framer Mike P seems to be describing such a hinge/bracket ...which sounds a lot like the little lower hinge shown in the illustration, (but shown in the wrong place.)
     
  14. Nov 19, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks so much for the offer of parts. There is still a chance I can make contact with my Craig's List seller and secure the missing hardware. (He seemed like an honest guy ...despite the phone issue.)

    You describe top and bottom hinges in your post here. Do both the top and bottom hinge you reference look like the one shown in the illustration? If so, I don't understand where the bottom hinge would mount because of the door's forward lower flap with snaps. When I snap the flap on to the lower doorway, the lower end of the hinge rod falls right into the little bottom socket on the forward top edge of the doorway threshold. It seems the lower flap with snaps would be in the way of any attached lower hinge no matter where you tried to locate it.

    If the top hinge looks similar to the illustration, I can imagine a triangular version screwing into the windshield frame. I see in my photo the upper door hinge rod branch gets fairly close to the angled upper side edge of the door... right where the windshield would be.
     
    Keys5a likes this.
  15. Nov 19, 2016
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    If you look closely at the photo of cj6 (beautiful jeep) you can see two silver bolts below the soft top on the windshield frame - that is where the upper hinge bolts. The lower hinge is just a hole in the bottom of the door opening - there is a small metal cup welded under it which holds the door up.
     
  16. Nov 19, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks, Mike.

    That CJ6... no kidding..."Beautiful Jeep" is right on target.

    Ok, so the top assembly illustration doesn't show the correct location for the upper hinge piece which screws into the windshield edge. On the used 1970 "Jeep" brand top I bought, the aluminum track (that captures the upper angled side of the soft door) is to be mounted where the cj6 shows the upper hinge will attach... That hinge piece must fit over that track piece somehow. Boy, it's tough not having that upper hinge piece.

    Thanks again for all your help.
     
  17. Nov 19, 2016
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    I know your struggling with this so I went out and took pictures of the horizontal rod support and upper hinge. Pm me your email or cell # and I'll send them as well as any other pictures you may need. I haven't posted any picture on here because I don't have a photobucket account. Let me know what you need.
     
  18. Nov 20, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Hey Greenshirt,
    I was looking for straight back bow dimensions and came across this:
    The CJ2A Page Forum

    and:
    Canvas tops

    and:
    Make Your Own Canvas Top

    and found a post full of paterns closely matching the top on the Naval Air Station CJ5 we both seem drawn to. Better yet there are 21 pages of "how to" sew it and design considerations, hardware sources, and upgrades, etc, etc. For a do it yourself guy, it is a like passport to taking it on. Obviously the cj5 will be different, but mostly scale only.
    Enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  19. Nov 20, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    When I acquired my 1969 cj5 this Spring, it already had snaps installed on the hinge side of the door jams, along the sides, and across the back.

    Does anyone know if snaps have a standard placement and standard spacing and standard size? Did Jeeps ship from the factory with snaps?

    Thanks.
     
  20. Nov 22, 2016
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Didn't include in my PM. My top is a Whitco. Purchased in 1978 from the local AMC/Jeep dealer.
     
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