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Lets Talk Welders

Discussion in 'The Tool Shed' started by montanacj, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. Sep 12, 2016
    montanacj

    montanacj Member

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    I am looking at getting a mig welder for some repair panels and just to have in general. I've done some welding and have always wanted a welder of my own. I have my eye on the miller 141 which is a 120v machine. I also was looking at the Hobart 140 which is similar to the miller, 120v, but has more plastic and doesn't have the autoset features. I realized these companies are one in the same with Hobart being the less expensive version.

    Additionally, I was thinking about upgrading to the miller 211 which has a 220v and 120 plug. Figuring it's more versatile machine that I could grow into for other projects etc.

    Lastly, the miller 215 multimatic is basically a 211 with a dc lift TIG option. This would give me the most options for growth but costs the most at @1300.

    Anyone have any of these machines or whats working for you all?

    thanks

    Hobart 140
    Hobart Welders - Products - Wire Feed Welders - Handler 140

    Miller 141
    Miller MIG Welders - MIG Welding and GMAW Welding Machines - MillerWelds

    Miller 215
    Miller Multi Process Welders and Multiprocess Welding Machines - MillerWelds
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  2. Sep 12, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Lift arc is not my favorite TIG machine. I have used it in a suitcase style model. It didnt have a foot pedal or control on the torch. Set and go. I hate it. When I first used a TIG welder, I made on rout of a lincoln AC/DC buzz box that was a similar deal, but even more crude. Worked fine to learn the very basics.

    Hobart seems to make fine welders and if you're looking to them, look at lincoln too. I had a lincoln 180SD that worked great. I outgrew it though pretty quickly. I now have an airco made by ESAB from the 80s. 60% duty cycle at like 200 amps.
    [​IMG]

    If I were to buy new I would look hard at the Miller 252 or similar Lincoln machine. Get the biggest you can afford, not just because you can do more, but because the support is there for consumables and overall quality seems to be better.

    With auto detect machines, only 110 volt is not required anymore. Another thing, that speed glass hood is worth every penny of the 300 or so bucks it costs. It was almost as much as the welder its sitting on and I do not for one second regret the purchase.
     
  3. Sep 12, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Welders are like an investment............cheaper versions may get you by for a while.......but will always lack in performance!

    I'm a Big Miller Welding fan and own several. I have a Miller 211 (non-inverter style) here that I really like it's overall performance........One thing I also like about that machine is the availability of having the 110v option by using the supplied plug adapter............. although for the most part sheet metal will be where it really performs it's best while On 110 volts.........but with the unique dual power function it will also plug into a 220v 30 amp outlet that will weld up to 3/8" plate which for most folks is far outside there needs...........keeping in mind if you were trying to weld 1/4" plate on a regular basis you really need a 3/8" capacity machine like the 211 because of the 40% duty cycle. Again the 110v option is always good to have , if you needed to say weld a fence or something a 100 ft away, change the spool of wire over to flux core........get a good heavy extension cord and your in business. I also take my 211 and plug it into my Miller Bobcat either on 110v or 220 depending on the thickness of material.

    As far as the Multi-Process machines will the name pretty much tells you the eventual results.........Not bad but there is no substitute for an all out TIG machine and the capabilities that comes with it................Yes , with the 211 you can add an Aluminum Wire feed gun........but don't expect outstanding results on the Aluminum vs a TIG machine. Like wise the multipurpose machines only weld on DC negative whereby AC is where you want to weld aluminum for the best results....................I think the 211 is a good choice.
     
  4. Sep 12, 2016
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    I have had the Hobart 140 since 2008-2009, it works great. I have no complaints and its small enough to take to a friends house to do other projects. It has done everything I have needed done on my jeep. Is bigger better, maybe, maybe not depends on what you really use it for. I have a tig welder at work and a larger mig welder, I use the tig at work but have never needed the bigger mig for anything I have built.
     
  5. Sep 13, 2016
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I have an Autoarc/Miller 250 mig that does everything I have ever asked it to do. I also have a spool-o-matic gun for aluminum, but I haven't totally mastered that. I can weld aluminum, but it isn't like tig. I recently picked up a Lincoln 205V tig, but haven't played too much with that yet. The Lincoln is made in Italy, and is either 110 or 220 volt. My brother had this same model, and his fried the circuit board when he plugged it into 220. They sometimes have a problem rembering what the voltage is. I've been told to only use it on 220 as that is what they use in Italy where it was designed and made. Lincoln spec'ed out a voltage sensing option for the USA market.
    My friend who owns the local body shop, as well as another friend, both have the Hobart 140 and like them a lot, especially for sheetmetal/bodywork. Small and handy, good stable arc, just an easy machine to use.
    -Donny
     
  6. Sep 13, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I have nothing but good things to say about my Thermal Arc Fabricator 210 (made by Thermadine, same people who make Tweco guns and Victor torches), but it looks like they have since merged with Esab (who I also have had good experience with). I just swapped in my fifth 33 pound spool of wire the other day since buying it new back in '09(?). It hasn't skipped a beat. It came with a 15' 600 amp Tweco gun, standard. The whole machine feels like it was built to that amount of overkill.

    Anyway, splurge and get a bigger unit than you think you need. Not only does it allow you to grow into it, but you won't be running it at full duty cycle just to do body work and basic repairs.
     
  7. Sep 13, 2016
    montanacj

    montanacj Member

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    Good advice everybody thanks for the input. I am leaning toward the Miller 211 I have read a lot of good reviews about it and you get what you pay for in my experience.
     
  8. Sep 13, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    I think you will be very happy with the Miller 211............Much better to Pay a little more now and get a machine that doesn't limit you to just say 3/16" or 1/4" peak capacity while welding on lower duty cycles. Input power should also be looked at where ever you plan on plugging that in.......a tap directly off the main or close to a branch panel box that's already fed with large enough wire to support it's needs. All you need now is to find a used owner cylinder or rent one .......check Craigs List they come up often.

    Inverter type machines are also sensitive to power surges , If your in an area where Lighting strikes are common the machine should be unplugged after use.

    Here is my current fleet................minus the DialArc 250 HF in the center that went to my son-in-laws last week. In the background that is a 2 year old non-inverter style 211......and my latest welder a 280DX.
    Enjoy the process!
    [​IMG]
     
    Danefraz likes this.
  9. Sep 17, 2016
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    If i remember right from my welding classes, aluminum is picky to weld. You need to make sure you use the same grade aluminum in the machine as what your welding. You'll have issues if they arent compatible.
     
  10. Sep 17, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Yes , it is Picky! There are various filler materials available for different grades of aluminum........the first challenge is to Identify if you can what grade aluminum it is that you wish to weld on..........not all aluminum is weldable or created equal...........sometimes if you have a sample it's best to strike and arc on it first and see how it first reacts.

    Welding machines , when it comes to welding aluminum are also not created equal..........some have many different options and wave patterns that help when welding aluminum............The new welder I just bought has several of these options .............Although I have just started to understand and learn these options in my new machine , here is the first welds on 1/4" plate after I set the machine up.......I'm impressed by the control over the arc.

    [​IMG]
     
    montanacj likes this.
  11. Sep 18, 2016
    montanacj

    montanacj Member

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    @tarry99, looks pretty nice. I ended up pulling the trigger on a Miller 215 which as I understand it is a 211 with lift tig and stick capability. I bought it primarily for mig but will try the DC lift tig in the future. As I understand it Miller doesn't make a bad tig welder period. It's coming out of the box today as soon as the honey do list is done.

    I am excited to learn more about welding and look forward to throwing some sparks :)

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Sep 18, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    Congratulations..........Welding is a life long learning experience.
     
  13. Sep 18, 2016
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I have been a Boilermaker most of my adult life and have taught welding to tradesmen. Also as a boilermaker, many hours were spent tig welding. In all of my years working in and among the tradesmen, I have never heard the term "lift tig". What are you referring to?
     
  14. Sep 18, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    I assumed scratch-start? As opposed to a pedal?
     
  15. Sep 18, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    It's what miller calls "lift arc" I believe. On machines that don't have a pedal or control on the torch, you touch the tungsten to the work and lift it off and the arc starts. I have used a portable 110 machine like this with no pedal and gas on the torch. It didn't work out so well for me. I have used scratch start before and that worked out fine for thick steel.
     
  16. Sep 18, 2016
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Guys, I'm fully aware of the term "scratch arc" and the process. That was my first thought also but, if the op uses this setup as a tig and buys the tig setup offered as an option, it comes with a peddle. I know I'm making assumptions but like I said, I have never heard the term.
     
  17. Sep 18, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    My understanding is there is a circuit in the welder that helps to start an arc without melting the electrode. I would guess it senses continuity and sends high voltage at low current until it detects the formation of an arc, and then ramps up to full current. So you touch the electrode to the work and pull back.
     
  18. Sep 18, 2016
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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  19. Sep 18, 2016
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    So as tarry said, with welding you learn something new regularly. Miller has come up with a new feature to aid in tig welding. So not scratch arc and does require a peddle.
     
  20. Sep 18, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The machine I used with lift arc ,or start, was a miller max star 140 ,or something, portable unit. It had no pedal, so you set it and thats the amp you have. It ran on 110 and the boss wanted me to weld 1/4 stuff with it at 40 amps where the 1/4 stock was being welded to was a lead filled box. Its the worst welding I have ever done since basically my first try. I have to look at the mess I made every time I service that unit. The welds are strong enough, just so bad...

    I made my AC/DC lincoln tombstone into a TIG welder that was scratch start. When you didnt stick the tungsten into the material and you were welding thicker steel it did fine. My present TIG welder is a Miller 180 syncrowave and I like it lots. Its not perfect, but my skills are not great so its fine for me.
     
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