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full float axles or power steering?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by cayenne, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Sep 8, 2015
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    187
    Looking for yall's $0.02

    After having issues for awhile, my rear 19 spline Lockright finally ate itself up this weekend.

    It is a hunting/play jeep that spends 90% offroad. Traction hasn't been a problem with the sm465 and lockers front and rear, so recently my mind has been wandering to drive-ability issues.

    Option 1: Herm 30 spline full float kit, Detroit locker, and lockout hubs since I flat tow it quite a bit and don't have anywhere to store a trailer.

    Option 2: revert back to open diff and use money for power steering to replace original ross. In low range 4wd, this thing is almost impossible to turn.

    It will be hard enough to convince the wife that either 1 or 2 are necessary, so I can't do both for a few years. I feel like I'm at a crossroads of drivability and making it bulletproof for its intended purpose.
     
  2. Sep 8, 2015
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,059
    If you lock-up the front axle, you need power steering even ram assist (i needed it for 36" tsl).

    Also about the manual lock-out, if you have a external lock you will have the loosening bolt issu, best to turn to internal lock.

     
  3. Sep 8, 2015
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
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    4,061
    Ps is nice. Easy enough to collect parts over next year or 2 whatever your timeline is. Then get the full float kit and do it all at once;)
     
  4. Sep 8, 2015
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    8,409
    Do the FF conversion.
    Best bang for the buck that pays a dividend right away.
    Traction more important than luxury of P/S. (But dang, P/S is nice once you have it)
    The P/S conversion is more complicated and time consuming.
    Live with the steering or do at waaaay later date.
     
  5. Sep 9, 2015
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    187
    I don't understand regarding the internal vs. external lock....I was just planning on using the warn manual locking hubs, are they the internal type?

    Thanks for the responses!
     
  6. Sep 10, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
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    5,433
    External lock is what you're looking at. Internal lock would use a hub for a chevy/ford or similar that has splines on the inside of the hub. I have been told that the weak point of the external design is the hub itself. I have also been told that this is most certainly not the case. If you're concerned you can use drive flanges or just go with a ford hub with internal splines to keep the same bolt pattern. I use the external warn hub design. Do a search for this and you will find some information.
     
  7. Sep 10, 2015
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
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    2,823
    The power steering mod is probably gonna be much cheaper. If you source the right used parts(if looking at 2 years, you can be patient) can easily be done for under $100. It has been done on just about every pre 71 Jeep still on the road so there is a lot of information out there.
     
  8. Sep 10, 2015
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,650
    Perhaps, but some sort of traction device in the rear axle isn't really optional for a real trail rig. I would go with Herm's set up. If nothing else, the wheels/brakes stay functional if you twist an axle shaft off. I'm not a big fan of Detroit Lockers (really bad road manners in a short Jeep), but they do work great on the trail.

    Also, I think a lot of the problems people have with external hubs can be traced directly with what is used to bolt them on. All the Dana-Spicer hubs (at least all that I've looked at) have about a 1/4" of un-threaded bore at the surface. It is absolutely imperative that a solid, un-threaded section of fastener is present in that section. The pitch diameter of a 3/8's-16 thread is 0.3344 and the minor diameter is 0.2983. So the shear strength of the threaded portion is only 63% of the solid un-threaded portion. Perhaps worse, the major diameter leaves about 0.040 clearance so the only thing keeping the lock-out hub from moving that amount is the tightness of the fastener-not a good formula for success. Bolts or studs makes no difference in this regard. I ended up making my own studs out of grade 8 bolts that have 1.25" of thread. Those effectively bottom in the threads of the hub bore and leave a solid shank at the surface. I couldn't find appropriate off-the-shelf studs anyplace.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  9. Sep 10, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
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    This is just me, but I'd do a mini-spool in the rear, or better yet, stick the gears back in it and weld them up. It's more predictable than a Detroit on the street, and traction is as good as you can get.

    That's just about free, so you have all that money left to do the power steering swap.
     
  10. Sep 10, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
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    2,104
    I've never had issues with my Warns loosing a bolt and I know about that space in the hub. I either use the stock bolts or have gotten longer shouldered bolts and cut off the threaded end to match the stock bolts.
    I think I would go for the PS myself.
     
  11. Sep 11, 2015
    Flathead

    Flathead New Member

    Kenai, Alaska
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
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    This takes my vote with a FF.
     
  12. Sep 11, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Jun 2, 2009
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    2,104
    I'm perfectly happy with my Powerlock. The neighbor kid welded up the rear in his Blazer, it took about three days for him to destroy it. If you aren't going to a locker, a spool is good if you spend most of the time in the dirt.
     
  13. Sep 11, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
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    6,332
    I've welded up 5 rears so far and have no bad things to say about the results. Dana 25s up to 60s. I weld spider gears to side gears, side gears to carrier, and I'll throw in pieces of square stock between the large gap in the side gears and weld them together too. Stick weld, 7014 or 7018 for best results, from my experience. Take your time, don't overheat any of the gears or bearings. It has mostly been a last resort after I blew out the spiders and the rear was almost trashed anyway, but I did the flanged '75 D44 in my 3B from the get-go, and it has held together through the toughest of abuse for 15+ years. Many street miles on 33s, too. Chirp chirp chirp... :)
     
  14. Sep 13, 2015
    prichmon

    prichmon Sponsor

    Huntington WV
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
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    I would do the stock open diff and use a lock right or similar lunchbox locker. Easy. Cheap. And simple.

    Use the leftover diff cost for ps.

    Rich
     
  15. Sep 14, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    12,123
    I would not weld the differential gears or the CASE in a street driven vehicle. Been there, done that, removed tons of them for customers and replaced too many broken and twisted axles because there is no cushion or give in the drivetrain. Just too many down sides for me. If it works for you, great, but I won't recommend it. Especially on a fairly light duty axle.
     
  16. Sep 15, 2015
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
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    415
    I have the Warn FF rear axle set-up and like it very much. Really simplifies towing. I live with a tuned up Ross steering system that does fine most of the time.
     
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