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Varg In Jeep's Clothing

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ITLKSEZ, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Feb 1, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I do like orange. I didn't used to, but now I sure do. Funny, i didnt even notice the hood was orange. Just looks so great. I have a bit of a thing for flat fenders and fabrication.
     
  2. Feb 5, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Ryan, I really like your outside-the-box way of looking at how to improve on the way to do a chassis. I have a LR Defender project in the garage (AMC powered), so I see where the front radius arm design come from. I went so far as taking a set of spare Disco arms, getting out the rosebud and bending them into a shape similar to what you are doing. Too bad the arms weren't another 6" longer! I didn't really want to fabricate the entire arm as you are doing. I was still looking at the simple biscut chassis mounts from LR. I just couldn't find an elegant way to build a spring/shock perch without cutting most of the inner fender out on my CJ5. I'll be curious to see what elegant design you come up with. Beautiful work!
    -Donny
     
  3. Feb 6, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Thanks Donny.

    Yeah, there's zero room to work in here. Every action causes an exponential shrinkage of space around it. The coils, shocks, track bar, sway bar and steering linkages are fighting for the same 60 square inches of real estate.


    I got one of the radius arms completed last night, and I'm pleased with it. It finished out at 17 1/2 pounds with the mounts installed.
    1949 CJ3A meets trophy truck! :D

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And here it is at full lock. If I adjust the stops as far as the birfields will let me, and I get wheels with the proper offset, they will tuck in there nicely.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Feb 6, 2017
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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  5. Feb 6, 2017
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    I just switched out a front leaf spring on a cj7 - was feeling good about myself - come upstairs and see this.
     
    Hellion and OrangeCJ5 like this.
  6. Feb 6, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    :rofl:

    Me too... I was proud of some bondo work on my hardtop...I just might give up on any future Jeep work and sell it. :susp:
     
  7. Feb 6, 2017
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    Your fabrications skills are off the chart. That said, it seems a shame to do all of that work only to end up with such short radius arms. Maybe it's an illusion, but they look to be about the length of a stock Jeep lower control arm.
     
  8. Feb 6, 2017
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Beautiful. How much travel will you have?
     
  9. Feb 6, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Thanks guys.

    Posimoto, they're 32 1/4" from center of axle to the pivot point. I was limited to that length by the cage outrigger (without stretching the wheelbase to ridiculous lengths). Although, I doubt I would have went much longer if I could have. I'm more concerned with having a comfortable, practical street rig than a hardcore wheeler.

    One thing I've learned over the years, if your front and rear suspensions aren't set up with similar spring rates and more importantly - limitations, you end up with a very unstable rig. I don't want to over-build the front end, only to surpass the capabilities of the leaf-sprung rear.
     
    68BuickV6 and Posimoto like this.
  10. Feb 6, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    No idea. :D

    I'm planning on using Cherokee (rear) bumpstops at all four corners. They're 4" thick rubber. I should have about 2-3" uptravel before contact with them at every wheel. Droop will be limited by whatever length shocks I can fit under the hood and in the wheelwells.
     
  11. Feb 6, 2017
    47v6

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    Holy crap! Yeah, super awesome!
     
  12. Feb 6, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    In case anyone was wondering how many pieces it takes to build an arm....
    (Not including the 3 link ends and top and bottom pieces in the center curved section)
    Passenger's side is ready for assembly.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Feb 7, 2017
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Workmanship is superb as always. With this design, how is steering caster adjusted? Is it established at the time of construction and fixed when welded or are there adjustments?
     
  14. Feb 7, 2017
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    x3
     
  15. Feb 7, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    This.
    As it sits, I have it set at about 5 1/2°.

    With radius arms (3 link, as opposed to a 4 or 5 link) the caster will change fairly drastically with ride height.

    Any time I do a build, I wait to finish-weld the spring perches and (in this case) radius arm mounts until absolute last. After it sits at its final ride height, that's when it's safe to make the front caster and rear pinion angles permanent. Right now I just have heavy tacks on the axles at the mounting plates and perches. If I need to rotate the axle in the mounts at the end, it won't be too big of a deal.
     
  16. Feb 7, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    That arm is a thing of beauty! As you stated, caster changes pretty quickly when using a 3 link, so the longer the arm, the less drastic the change. We don't have the luxury to build a long arm on our short-wheelbase Jeeps. Rovers optimized the caster angle at stock ride height, but most vehicles got lifted, and these lifted vehicles drive like poo on the road. There have been some interesting "fixes" to correct caster, from offset bushings at the axletube radius arm mounts, to milling the boltholes from round to slotted where the swivel balls attach to the axle banjo. In our Jeep world, the equivalent is cutting the ends of our d30/d44 off the front tubes to rotate them.
    Its interesting to note that Rover's 3 link front axle (in stock form) rotated its pinion angle up, nearly matching the driveshaft angle. What pinion angle are you shooting for at ride height, or just keep what you get when optimizing castor? A double-cardin front driveshaft could work. Everything is a compromise with front suspension, but your work is beautiful!
    -Donny
     
  17. Feb 7, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

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    Thanks for the kind words Donny. As crazy as a build as this looks, it's still on a seriously tight budget. I'd love to splurge on a pricey front driveshaft, but it's just getting Volvo junkyard parts.

    With the caster set at 5 1/2°, the pinion is angled up at 5°. It's getting a 2-piece front driveshaft, and I angled the carrier bearing down about two degrees from the t-case, so all the front shaft U-joints should be in the area of 2° of misalignment. The center one might be a hair more. Basically splitting all the differences. Hopefully it isn't too much to notice significant vibration. I'm just going with it and hoping for the best. :whistle: The only time I'll have the hubs locked is when I'm crawling anyway, so it should be a non-issue.

    Now in the rear, I'll have no choice but to call on Tom Woods.
     
  18. Feb 7, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You will be happy, or I could just make you one out of junk. You might be less happy or more POed. :rofl: My last one wasn't the source of my issues at all..
     
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  19. Feb 7, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    With your fabricationg skills, I don't see why you don't make your own driveshaft. I have made at least 8 in the past few years for my projects and friends.
    I simply cut down (shorten) an existing driveshaft. I carefully cut the weld bead at one end of the end of tube, usually while turning it by hand in my chop saw. Once thinned down, I crack the remaining metal, separating the cast end. The cast end has a step machined in to accept the id of the driveshaft tube (self centering).
    Measure and cut the tube to the desired length, and tap the cast end back on. I get the phase very close by laying the ends on a flat surface to square them up with each other. I then put a couple small weld tacks, and install on the vehicle. I set up a dial indicator (though a clamped screwdriver will do) to check runout as I spin the shaft by hand. A few hammer taps to true it, a few more weld tacks, etc. It doesn't take long. Once dead-nuts true, a few more weld tacks. Remove it and weld away! You are only modifying one end, so you have a good baseline. On shafts shorter than 15"-16", balancing has never been an issue. Ditto on the longer front driveshafts that are small diameter, balance has not been an issue.
    If you were building a high hp/high tq rig, get one made, but for your project, you certainly have the skill. I have one of my home-builts with a strong AMC 360/TH400 turning it on 32" tires and have not had any issues.

    32 1/4" long arms? The Rover pieces are about 32" straight. I think I lost about 4 1/2" on my experimental bends. I wonder if I could splice a section in to lengthen the forging? I'll be watching how you fit the spring/shock and see what space it occupies above the frame.
    -Donny
     
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  20. Feb 7, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I've made every driveshaft I've ever run just as you described, and will on the front. But for the rear, I want it to be perfect. Going from D300 yoke to Toyota flange, I'll just call on them to make me a double cardan and be done with it.
     
    47v6 likes this.
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