11" Wagner Brakes

I know we've been over this before, but looking at the FSM for the 58 wagon, and a bit confused about brake shoes. Do I see this correctly that it shows the front shoe is the longer shoe on both front and rear wheels...Guess I am used to the self adjusting bendix ones on the cj where its opposite arrangement (and whoever put them on before me put the short shoe on the front for the same reason I probably would have if I hadn't check the manual)...but just wanted to double check with you all before putting the hub back on and all...

 

I read it just how you say you read it. I can't honestly say that I put mine on correctly 14 or 15 years ago, I don't remember if I read that part.

 

FWIW the FSM also has this NOTE box - although the terms forward and reverse are a bit less clear than forward and rear:

 

Confusing wording but I think "forward" shoe means the same as the installation description.

 

I think originally, the two shoes were probably the same length...Did some searching around the OWF and seems to be some mixed discussion there as well...I don't spend enough time there to know who knows their stuff well, but starting to recognize a couple guys that seem to know their stuff and they mentioned long shoe goes forward as well. Its kind of hard to argue with the FSM.... Wondering if NickM might know for sure...and I also sent Walcks a question as they provided me with the new wheel cylinders...We'll see what they say...No rush as I just did the fronts (and haven't put the hub back on) and will start working on the rears tomorrow with the hub puller.

 

As Fino posted it's definitely in the manual that the longer shoe goes in the front. Now I wonder if I originally did mine right.

 

Seems like we had a discussion about this previously, if IRC the difference was due to the design of the mounting and adjustment of the types of brakes.

 

That's a good, understandable explanation!

 

thanks Ken - long shoe is going forward on the wagon. As the later 10 and 11" cj brakes (and I think most with self-adjusters on the bottom), the classic big on back (bob) are all I've worked with, I wanted a bit of confirmation of the FSM. Plus, it didn't help that the PO put them on backwards then...

 

It's always good to check, as you did. Having an understanding of "why" always helps me.

 

and of course, I have now been trying to understand the 'why' of the traditional big shoe on back for self-adjusting drums...I think it has something to do with the 'floating' bottom end of the shoe against the self-adjusting mechanism instead of the solid point on the early wagner brakes...

 

Yep. As I see it, in simple terms the front shoe engaging forces the rear shoe harder against the drum.

 

Thanks - this is the most useful discussion on shoe lining length and placement around, and I think I do a search of this everytime I mess with brake shores as its never been fully clear to me why. Its one thing to learn, read or memorize a process and follow it, but as Glenn said, its very helpful to also understand the 'why'. Thanks again.

 

The first time I did drums - on the cj - I was surprised how 'fiddly' or 'wiggly' the shoes where when everything was getting installed on the backing plate. In other words, it didn't feel very solid - although I understand once they are activated and pressed into the drums everything tightens up, and it also allow the shoes to make as much contact with the drum as possible. These non-adjustable wagner brakes as trivially simple with the solid base point and only the piston (no links) at the top...but that allows for less natural, minor tweaking of the shoes when interfacing with the drum and of course, they are manual adjustment...I've never had manual adjustment brakes before, so it will be interesting to see how much attention they will need, and whether I ever decide to move on from them.