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11" brake line help needed asap

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by all4jpn, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Sep 3, 2010
    all4jpn

    all4jpn Member

    fredericksburg,va
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    :rofl::rofl:so i started putting the new lines on the cj this a.m.,,,,but i have a big issue...wheel cylinders brand new for a 75 cj-5 front...brake lines are stock 2a repro'swhen i install the line in the wheel cylinder it screws in fine. but with the line fully tightened i have a 1/2 inch of play(push in/out) with the line...please help and tell me there is some fitting i can put in
     
  2. Sep 3, 2010
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
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    Can you post a picture of the wheel cylinder and the line (with the ftg)?
     
  3. Sep 3, 2010
    SIDSCJ

    SIDSCJ Jeep addict

    14th State
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    You're not using hard lines to the wheel cyls, are you? Sounds like the part (line/hose??) you're putting on the wheel cyl is bottoming out before the flared end is seating in the wheel cyl. Need a hose to replace the "S" lines. Hose should go to the hard line on the axle.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2010
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    The stock setup on a CJ-2A was hard "S" lines plumbed into he back of the wheel cylinders, connected to a very short flexible hose, which is then connected to the hard lines from the MC. A popular mod is to eliminate the "S" lines and the short brake hoses in favor of later model hoses that connect directly to the wheel cylinders and to the hard lines from the MC. The ones from the '75 application may be the ticket. ;)
     
  5. Sep 3, 2010
    all4jpn

    all4jpn Member

    fredericksburg,va
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    i asked in the 5 tech section also so i'll post the same resolution.....2 trips to napa later...
    brem is correct...maybe add a line to the 11" tech page....heres what happened...
    ordered the 11" wheel cylinders listed in the parts section on the tech page..
    then i ordered a brake line kit from walcks...both ends of the lines(the rear wheel cylinder to "t" fitting over the axle and the front wheel cylinder "s" line to the flex hose on the axle end have short threaded "bolts". this caused the wheel cylinder end to not bottom out. I went to napa with the parts and the easiest thing to do was get 4 sections (2 8" and 2 30" sections) these sections had a short fitting on one side and a long fitting on the other..problem solved......coincidentally i solved the mystery by digging out a set of 10" backing plates. took the fitting out of the 10" wheel cylinder and was able to see the difference....so fyi for those when ordering line kits/doing 11" swaps....hope this helps someone in the future
     
  6. Sep 3, 2010
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    I'm going to be suprised if your brakes system seals properly. It sounds to me like your trying to mix the stock 9" system with an 11" system from later parts.

    Steve (w3srl) has it right. You need to remove the metal S-lines and the short stock hoses and replace them with a longer lines from a 72-75 jeep. The front 11" wheel cylinders seal using a copper crimp washer between the hose and the wheel cylinder. The early 9" S-lines sealed using an inverted flare at the wheel cylinder. You're S-lines weren't bottoming out because the flare nut wasn't long enough, they were bottoming out because the wheel cylinder isn't machined to seal an inverted flare.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  7. Sep 3, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    to comment further
    back when you could buy 11" brake kits, the instructions specifically said to purchase two front brake rubber hoses and they gave you a choice of numbers from Wagner, EIS, or whoever at the time.
    just an FYI, not criticism.
     
  8. Sep 3, 2010
    all4jpn

    all4jpn Member

    fredericksburg,va
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    i believe ya....i did an initial bleed by myself and everything is sealing so far..gonna do a full bleed with the wife tomorrow a.m. and see...any weeps and i'll be off to the store....dont ya hate those days when you go back and forth to the parts store...
     
  9. Sep 3, 2010
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    Usually 3 or 4 times.
     
  10. Sep 4, 2010
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    I just checked my 11" in front. It's as I said. Wheel Cylinder > crush washer > Brake hose. You need to go back to the FLAPS. A set-up with the wheel cylinder > hard line > hose is unsafe.
     
  11. Sep 4, 2010
    all4jpn

    all4jpn Member

    fredericksburg,va
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    ok..thanks..are your rears just hard line screwed into the cylinders?
     
  12. Sep 4, 2010
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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  13. Sep 4, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    On the rears make sure the threaded fittings reach all the way into the wheel cylinders. A lot of earlier ones (9", 10" brakes) used a short threaded fitting on the hard line that will tighten up but not push the double flare far enough in to seal against the seat in the wheel cylinder for the 11" brakes. You need to change the fitting out for the longer one. Usually easier and a good idea to change the whole like out for one with the longer fitting. Then you know it's not rusty, work-hardened, etc. Generally pretty cheap and easy too.
     
  14. Sep 26, 2010
    canuk

    canuk Member

    Chandler AZ
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    Does this washer fit into the wheel cylinder hole or on the outside of the hose fitting.
    Thanks
    Terry
     
  15. Sep 27, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Between the flat surface of the hose fitting and the surface of the wheel cylinder where the hose threads in. The copper washer or gasket fits over the threaded portion of the fitting.
     
  16. Sep 27, 2010
    canuk

    canuk Member

    Chandler AZ
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    Thank you sir, does anybody know what the torque spec is?
    Is it just enough to smash the washer?
    My wife always says i overtorque everything, sometimes stripping threads:(
    Also: where does the 4 way mount to, i am in the middle of replacing all the brake lines. I have a 66 cj5 and putting in a narrow track dana30.
    Thanks
    Terry
     
  17. Sep 27, 2010
    napaguy

    napaguy Banned

    goldendale wa
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    Doesnt need to be really tight...I always just "snug" it up then check for leaks. If it weeps just tighten a quarter turn or whatever it takes.
     
  18. Sep 27, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Yeah, what Napaguy said. Another trick to "seat in" the copper washers is to tighten the line, loosen it, tighten, etc. several times. This helps conform and crush the copper washer to prevent leaks. It also helps alleviate the tendency for the copper washer to "relax" after it's tightened down and cause the line to get loose and leak.
     
  19. Sep 27, 2010
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Ooh, really? My experience with high vacuum systems says copper gaskets are strictly one-time seals. Tightening-loosening would seem to be a bad idea. Of course, those are knife-edge seals, so maybe this is different.
     
  20. Sep 27, 2010
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I don't recommend re-using the seals by any means but these seals are usually quite thick and sometimes require some "seating in" to seal properly. Case in point, last year during my brakes class we had a student install new brake hoses and new copper gaskets on a vehicle. He torqued the banjo bolts properly into the calipers, bled the system out, did everything by the book. We parked the vehicle in the shop overnight. Next morning there was brake fluid on the floor. We re-checked the banjo bolts and found them slightly loose. I had the student follow the procedure I outlined above and then re-torque the banjo bolts. That vehicle has been leak free since then.

    I've also found that with remanufactured calipers and even new cheap wheel cylinders the seal surface is far from perfect and this procedure helps with this issue in a lot of cases.
     
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