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Auto Trans question

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Turk P, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Jul 4, 2013
    Turk P

    Turk P Member

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    My wife wants me to put in a THM350 into her ECJ5, I got to keep the wife happy so I/we can go wheeling more often. I know this is a tall order due to the length of the automatic transmission but I am building a new frame with a stretch. So here is my question, with the engine in the stock location, do you have to modify the trans tunnel to clear the thm350?

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  2. Jul 4, 2013
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    what engine and tcase do you have? i assume you mean th350, never heard it called a thm350. iwas looking into doing this swap but it wasnt in he budget. start here http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th350.htm also try searching on this forum.
     
  3. Jul 5, 2013
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Try the TH400 and Quadratrac transfer case from the '75 - '81 Cherokee.
     
  4. Jul 5, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Mmm. I think this poster should reassess his advice.

    Firstly the years are wrong. The TH400/BW13xx was used '73-79. From 1980 on, the GM transmission was gone and the drop switched to the driver side. The BW13xx Quadratrac has parts sourcing issues that should eliminate it from anything but the cars it came in. Owners of these cars are looking for alternatives to the Borg-Warner Quadratrac, including reverting back to the earlier Dana 20 and converting to a NP case like the NP242. Don't even think about the Quadratrac.

    Second, the TH350 (or THM350, since it is a TurboHydraMatic transmission) is shorter and smaller than the TH400 used in Jeeps. The TH350 is suggested because it is shorter than the TH400, and your rear driveshaft will be too short with the TH400 unless you make some heroic changes (move the engine forward?)

    You can do the BOP TH350 with the 225. You should not have to change the floors. Read the Novak pages linked above. If you are going to use Novak's adapter (recommended), give them a call and ask about what is involved. I think you can keep the engine in the same place, and not modify the floors. The rear drive shaft length should be the biggest issue.

    I have not done this swap, but it's been done a lot. Talk with Novak - they have a lot of customers that have used their adapter.
     
  5. Jul 5, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Also - you need better brakes with an automatic. If you have not already upgraded to 11" drums or front disks, this would be a good time.
     
  6. Jul 5, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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  7. Jul 5, 2013
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    If you have the V6 - You may wish to consider moving the engine forward to get a bit more drive shaft. You need every inch you can get that way.
     
  8. Jul 5, 2013
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    I mentioned the TH400/Quadratrac setup because it is already offset to the passenger side like the ECJ's. And came in a JEEP product.

    You would not believe how many people think if you mention Cherokee you are talking about those half-sized jobs that came along in the '80s. (not you, Tim)
     
  9. Jul 5, 2013
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    And if memory serves, the Quadratrac did come in one of the CJ models.
     
  10. Jul 5, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Yes, in the '76-'79 CJ-7. That 10 or so inches of longer wheel base makes a huge difference. It also used an AMC bellhousing bolt pattern which can be but not easily adapted to a BOP GM bolt pattern.
    Lack of parts availability like Timgr mentioned is a huge issue with these.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  11. Jul 5, 2013
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I did the TH350 thing years ago , its a fairly complicated swap . and custom drive shafts will have to be made , also you will need to fabricate a mounting bracket for transfer case shifter . auto shifter can be bought anywhere .one thing I do remember is the transmission pan is in same place as front drive shaft , so your going to have to modify the pan on passenger side .even with small front yoke . oil cooler will be needed .as to floor the transmission is much larger . and you will need to modify to get clearance . don't get me wrong anything can be done , just have to think it though. its not going to be a weekend job . one of reasons I went back to stick . is I wanted the jeep to look right , another was it was a pain to shift it into 4WD . everything in a auto is still turning in neutral . I would have to put in park or shut engine off to shift it . if you do have any problem I would be glad to help
     
  12. Jul 5, 2013
    Turk P

    Turk P Member

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    Thanks for your responses. The automatic transmission isn't my first choice for many reasons but I got to keep the wife happy.

    I talked with Novak previously and they suggested using a TH350/ Dana18 due to it is compact. When I bought the CJ it didn't have the stock engine in it but the seller gave me a GM 4.3 that he planned on using. I bolted the 4.3, TH350 and Dana 18 together and put it into the stock frame moving everything forward to create a longer driveline. It appears that the the transmission needs to go up or the engine needs to come down. I want to keep the engine at the stock height so to get the proper angle on the engine I need to raise the transmission. I will know for sure because I will because I will be putting the tub on the new frame this weekend.

    thanks
    Steve
     
  13. Jul 5, 2013
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
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    its cheaper to teach her to drive a manual trans.
     
  14. Jul 5, 2013
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Mmm... I'd say cheaper to find a Wrangler with an automatic. You can get a pretty good deal on a YJ.

    Not that I'm suggesting that ... it's a great project, but maybe a lot to it.
     
  15. Jul 6, 2013
    Turk P

    Turk P Member

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    I agree 100% but that's not a battle that I want to wager. LOL. Truthfully, it's my turn to give, she let me spend the last two years building my Willys Wagon and never once gave me any grief about the time I spent working on it, the budget or the trip to Moab to prove it. I'm a lucky man.

    Steve
     
  16. Jul 8, 2013
    72_CJ5_MUD

    72_CJ5_MUD Gunner

    now Central Florida
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    Yes, I owned a 1978 CJ5... I remember offering the Saleslady $4500 (list was $5800)... they delivered the 1978 to my workplace (Shell Chemical/ Deer-Park Manufacturing Complex) located in Deer-park, Texas off of the ship-channel. Oh, the actual price I paid: $5275. We split the difference... with the sales lady delivering to my work with the soft top not installed... was in the Whitco box lashed to the back seat. My 78 was all spartan except for a rear seat and 304 V8 with Quadra-Trac "chain driven transfer case" was the Sales-person's pitch and: "This Quadra-Trac TC will climb a hill just like a CAT... left front and right rear... then right front and left rear and then back to Left front and right rear" Darn if that wan't true... and with that 304... what a beast off San Antonio, Texas and those hills.[h=3]*Quadra-Trac Transfer Case[/h] transfer-case.. before I had 500 miles on the CJ-5... we pushed it back over... waited an hour and drove home! Dealership couldn't believe me, but sold me another bright blue hood. Great, 78' CJ5, 304ci with excellent operation!

    *Sorry for misprint.. a family member assisted with notations (I was in hospital)) and I did not explain very well. Of course: NO quadrasteer ever in 70's. My kid misunderstood, I do have an 02' GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer pickup that is fantastic in tight areas... NOT geared low enough for off road! Quadrasteer and all wheel drive. Now, if I could only convince the wife to not explode... I'd get out the welder and plasma cutter... swap around some equipment. Not likely in this life.
    So very Sorry for the mis-info! Oh, the eye's that must have been rolling at the screens! Sorry for the mis-directed data! ;o)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  17. Jul 8, 2013
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

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  18. Jul 8, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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  19. Jul 15, 2013
    72_CJ5_MUD

    72_CJ5_MUD Gunner

    now Central Florida
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    I know that Jeep has that in their data and Sales information. But when I tore that transfer-case up. And Bill and I really tore it up within 500 miles of delivery. The Dealership was almost in the mood for warranty repair. That was, until they understood (other people had pictures and descriptions from the other Jeeps and Land Rovers involved) how the damage occurred. My paperwork, with parts description included the chain and "Quadra-Trac drive chain, etc. I agree it doesn't match what Jeep has in the details. But I did own a 1978' CJ5, 304 V8 engine, 3 speed transmission with Quadra-Trac Transfer case. I paid for a replacement Quadra-Trac Transfer-case for that bad boy. Owned that CJ5 for a long time. Both my 1972 CJ5 I6 w/ 3 speed and 1978 CJ5 304/ 3 Speed trans with Quadra-Trac TC are great machines. I tore up that 78 before parting same out, yes I sold the TC and sold same as Quadra-Trac to another Mechanic. I still have my 1972.
     
  20. Jul 15, 2013
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Ch√Ętillon en...
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    It is a challenge to do this. But in USA you have mainly automatic cars, it could be easier to get a car with the automatic transmission.

    I have one for my wife, it is an Audi, works very well and...4 wheels drive.
     
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