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The Blue Lemon: musings and hopeful progress of my '75 CJ-5

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Leftlane, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Jun 30, 2013
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    fwiw my 74 has 2.5 bds springs about a 3/4 inch drop on the transfer case and shims to move the pinion up(towards the tub) i think the shims are about 1/2 inch on the fat side. no vibrations or binding of the shaft
     
  2. Jun 30, 2013
    rsbad454

    rsbad454 Member

    NorCal
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    Sep 30, 2012
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    171
    Nice jeep......
     
  3. Jul 3, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Had to take the day off to wait for the a/c repairman the other day, so that gave me some alone time in the garage. But first an update on the bent spring plate:

    I called BDS and chatted with them on their thoughts of my situation. They thought a couple things that I also had been thinking - the ubolts splayed out due to either 1) a bad spring plate or 2) a torque wrench that was off calibration. I had to admit either of those could've been true. That plate was the last one of the four I worked on, so it's possible the wrench finally gave up the ghost somewhere between spring plate 3 and 4. I've secretly been waiting for my 1/2" torque wrench to die for the last 23-odd years. It was a cheaper Western Auto version I picked up when I used to sling auto parts part time while working in college. I was surprised it made it this long.

    Some things never change, so I picked up another cheap'ish wrench - this time from Lowe's. Hey it was marked down from $90 to $60. Yay me. There's a lot of articles out there that suggest the high dollar torque wrenches aren't the best. That's what I'm going with, anyway. So I decided to conduct a torque-off between my two 1/2" wrenches. To my surprise the old beaten up Western Auto wrench is right there with the new Lowe's unit. So that wasn't what fried my spring plate. That leaves bad/fatigued metal as the cause of my problem. Even with my new wrench applying ~75 ft/lbs to this particular plate it to starts to wrap up around the spring pack.

    BDS did offer to RMA 2 ubolts for me, so that was good. There's some money juggling hands in the interim, but still it speaks to their reputation as a good company to do business with.

    Meanwhile, with two new Ubolts in hand, I'm waiting for other parts to arrive before I tackle the bound driveshaft issue. Specifically, I decided to go with the JKS B-3 U-Bolt plates to replace the rears. Also, I ordered a 6° shim. I'll start this work once I have all the parts in hand and we'll see if I can get the driveshaft operating angles down around 15°.

    But the day off work allowed me to tackle the seat mount situation. Long story short, I've got my passenger seat mounted in a fashion that I'll copy for the drivers side. I cut tabs, welded in a floor base for the tabs, cut uprights, and drilled a variety of holes to see my mount idea to completion. How well it functions remains to be seen.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The keen eye will notice the absence of the toolbox on my '75. I have to own up to that - it was me. I cannot blame the various PO's that ensured it stayed in the Jeep all the way until the time I got it. For the seats I wanted the toolbox would've been wasted unused space. At least now I can put a Tuffy lock box (or similar) down there and access it from the front. This meant that I had to reinforce the floor - so I used 1/4"x1.5" flat stock to act as a tab brace. Better seen in this other lousy iPhone pic:
    [​IMG]

    Since I've got little kids, I'm attempting to keep the space between the front bucket seats clear to act as a walkway to the new rear seat, so the factory type door sill-to-door sill support bar type solution was out.

    In other Blue Lemon news, I sent back the 4 new Omix-Ada lap belts I had picked up on Amazon. I've decided that when I turn my attention to the roll cage, I'm going to go with 3-point style belts. I'd be interested in any recommendations on "family cages". Right now I like the looks of this one:
    http://extremecustomparts.com/i-341...amily-roll-cage-kit-55-75-cj5-cj2-cj3-mb.html
     
  4. Jul 3, 2013
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    i have the front bar that they make very nice quality.
     
  5. Jul 4, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Just got an email from 4x4RockShop stating that the JKS u-bolt skids are no longer made for intermediates like mine. Evidently they contacted the manufacturer. So I've canceled my order and now need to figure out which direction to take. I'm thinking it'll have to be Warrior Products for lack of any other u-bolt skid solution (that I'm aware of).

    This means that tomorrow I won't have all the hardware to being working on the driveshaft operating angles. Since I've got time, I'll try to finish the drivers seat mount fabrication. With any luck, I'll soon have full interior seating...

    btw - thanks for the comments and to sterlclan for his regular input. Much appreciated.

    On the topic of front bars like the one from Extreme Custom: since I've got big dumb feet, I'm concerned that I'll hang myself upside down when exiting my '5 with a front hoop that runs all the way down to the floor. Has anybody modified one to work with those brackets that attached the front bar to the sides of the dash? (let's leave strength concerns on the table for the purposes of my question, just curious about mod'ing a bar for use with this type of bracket, thanks)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  6. Jul 5, 2013
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    no experience with that set up. the bottom isnt really in the way (for me at least) the front hoop follows the dash down and then bends forward a little to get some more room by your feet
     
  7. Jul 7, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Apr 12, 2013
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    finishing the seat mounts and seat installation

    Made some good progress on the interior the last couple days.

    Driver's side mount completed:
    [​IMG]

    brackets painted:
    [​IMG]

    floor painted:
    [​IMG]

    rear seat installed:
    [​IMG]

    front seats installed:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    more detail:
    [​IMG]

    passing muster from the Chief Scrutineer:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Jul 26, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
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    Got a lot done on the CJ today.

    - installed 6° shims for the rear diff
    - installed rear Warrior Products U-Bolt skids (p/n 1720)
    - installed front Warrior Products U-Bolt skids (p/n 1710)
    - welded on a threaded stud to previously snapped off upper shock mount on psngr rear
    - drilled, pounded, and cussed out original rusted bolts that the PO used to install body mounts incorrectly (found a couple large bolts in my odd-bolt collection that I made work - gotta love that). Reinstalled mounts correctly.

    I'm happier with the W.P skids than I thought I'd be. They still hang down low as opposed to a design that would bring the nuts up alongside the spring pack. But they're hefty and look like they'll do the trick.

    The operating angle of the rear driveshaft where it connects to the diff is much improved. I still have to measure the new angle and drop the t-case an appropriate amount.

    I used SkyJacker 6° aluminum shims. I cut a previously bent U-Bolt that came with the lift kit to use as dowels to attempt to hold the axle tubes in place on the upper end of the shim (the lower end of the shim fits nicely on the stud on the springs).

    You can make out 3 of the skid plates in this photo:
    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the aluminum shims, the ubolt skids, and the vastly improved driveshaft angle at the pinion:
    [​IMG]

    I should add that I didn't need to cut the ubolts at the rear, but I did need to at the front.

    In other Blue Lemon news:

    The PO had routed the PVC hose directly into the carburetor fuel bowl breather. Yikes. I was hoping that was why it was smoking so much from the tail pipe (blueish/black/white - all colors are represented). After liberating the carburetor fuel bowl from a constant source of oily crankcase blow-by, it does smoke a little less from the tailpipe, but not enough to call this engine healthy. I still need to perform a compression/leak-down test.

    In the fun stuff dept, I ordered up a Dirtworx original style rear bumper. Woo hoo! Looking forward to that.

    As she sits tonight:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jul 27, 2013
    willys59cj5

    willys59cj5 Sponsor

    Gilroy, CA
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Great progress...looking good.
     
  10. Jul 27, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Thanks!

    I'm still shooting for Rubicon 2014 trip (Vintage Trail V?) with this group. So I gotta keep at it. To that, picked up a simple compression tester this morning. I may get to that today yet.

    willys59cj5, it looks to me like you went on this year's trip. Nicely done!
     
  11. Jul 27, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Compression test results are in. Being new to CJ's, I have to say getting at this CJ's 6cyl is a joy. Almost like it's on an engine stand. :)

    Cyl Reading_At_4th_Compression_Stroke
    1 142psi
    2 142psi
    3 140psi
    4 130psi (142**)
    5 141psi
    6 142psi

    **the interesting thing here is that I got 142psi the second attempt. But it definitely behaved slightly differently that first attempt. Still, it's within 9% of the others.

    Okay, so cylinder compression is well within spec, but something is amiss. I suppose a leak-down test would provide more info.

    Take a look at these fouled out plugs. I'm led to believe the PO replaced them fairly recently:
    [​IMG]

    They're all equally fouled out and sooty. Only one plug stands out, and that's good ol' number 4. There's that cylinder again. There is some sort of deposit on the electrode. See here:
    [​IMG]

    This 258 has an HEI conversion distributor. It's not the DUI, it's the cheaper one from 4wheelparts. I noticed that the Autolite 65 shown here were gapped at .030". That's pretty tight. The heatrange seems right. The manual calls for .035" and with HEI couldn't one take it to .055" without issue?

    All input is welcome. I was expecting a dead cylinder, but now I'm thinking whatever poor condition is leading to the smoking tailpipe is happening at all cylinders. This might get back to the PVC line running into the carb fuel bowl vent, but I think it's worse than that.

    New plugs en route...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  12. Jul 29, 2013
    DREDnot

    DREDnot Not new to JEEPS

    AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    646
    Get that PCV system hooked up correctly. If you get gas fumes in the crankcase it can 'splode.
    A properly operating PVC will reduce oil leaks by keeping the crankcase under a slight vacuum. This will help to reduce oil being forced past the valve seals and the subsequent smoke and plug deposits.

    Got any pics of your engine compartment?
     
  13. Jul 29, 2013
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
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    1,652
    I set the plug gap on my 232 with H.E.I. at .048 with no problems the past two years. Was going to play with it some but it did fine set there. Timing is set at 9 btdc.
     
  14. Jul 29, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Apr 12, 2013
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    73
    At the risk of overkill, here are a few:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    and this shot shows the mysterious Tube to Nowhere... I've got a thread in the intermediate section trying to figure this one out. Best guess so far is remnants of the "Air Guard" system:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Sep 1, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    test drive and leak down

    Update on the last several weeks of activity:

    I fab'ed up some 1" drop mounts for the trans/tcase so that the upper operating angle of the rear drive shaft would be improved.
    [​IMG]

    Here's the CJ with a simulated load using a bunch of containers filled with water:
    [​IMG]

    I threw in some new hotter heat range NGK's hoping that would help burn through whatever sooty situation was fouling out my plugs. I dialed in the timing and idle settings on the carb. The Jeep was running good. I reckoned it was time to take it out for the very first drive since I installed the lift kit a month or two ago... and really the 2nd drive around town ever since I purchased it. The rear driveshaft seems to be functioning properly.

    [​IMG]

    Then it dies completely, stranding me:
    [​IMG]

    So I test my flat tow equipment for the first time in anger using my trusty FJ and drag that sucker home. That's the right word for it because I still haven't got the frontend aligned. The caster (I'm guessing) is way off and the steering wheel doesn't turn around corners when flat towing. Scrub city.
    [​IMG]

    And just today get around to performing a leak down test. Results are not what you'd call "good":

    The numbers:
    cylinder 1: 90psi in / 70 psi holding // loss of 22%
    cylinder 2: 90/70 // loss of 22%
    cylinder 3: 90/59 // loss of 34%
    cylinder 4: 90/34 // loss of 62% {{<--winner}}
    cylinder 5: 90/66 // loss of 27%
    cylinder 6: 90/79.5 // loss of 12%

    Leakage for all tests above are from the crankcase. The big offender is #4 - just as the compression test earlier hinted at. Interesting to see the differences illustrated by a compression test versus a leak down test. The compression test could be interpreted to give an "all's well" indication, but the leak down test tells the truth. Looks like an engine rebuild is coming my way.

    Here's number 4 on the leakdown:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  16. Sep 20, 2013
    jowwo

    jowwo Member

    Colorado
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    Mar 11, 2012
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    73
    Re: test drive and leak down

    That's a nice lookin Jeep you have there. It was interesting to see those shims you used. Only because those are what's Ol' yeller. they're so tall, I thought somebody made them or something, but I guess not. Someday when I'm allowed to work on the Jeep again instead of my freaking house I would like to take a serious look at the spacer/shim/shackle situation we've got going on this Jeep. Maybe by then you'll have put some miles on those springs and can give a review of what you think of them. I've got BDS coils on my TJ and I was looking at the BDS 2.5 leaves to replace the rough county springs on the CJ. Anyway, good luck with your engine.
     
    TIm E likes this.
  17. Oct 22, 2013
    clkhanger

    clkhanger New Member

    Soddy Daisy TN
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    Oct 21, 2013
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    1
    I love the 33 10.5 r15 KM2 tires on those steelies. What size rim did you order from Stockon? I'm currently using the stock 15" steelies now that came on the jeep, but wanted to see if you went to a 15x8 or 15.7.
    My 79 CJ5 is in the shop now having brake lines done, and the tires are next.
     
  18. Nov 29, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Re: test drive and leak down

    Thanks. I haven't gotten any more miles on the Jeep since my last post in this thread. Read on for reasons why. At this point I've only heard good things about the BDS leaves on my CJ5 and put about 10 miles on the Jeep since I installed them. So don't take my word for anything... yet.
     
  19. Nov 29, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Apr 12, 2013
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    Thanks. I recall that these rims are the "Henry". They're only 7" wide. Since I don't have power steering, and don't plan to install it, I wanted to limit the size of the wheel to only what I felt was necessary to fit my desired 33x10.50's. If I ever planned on trying 12.50, I would have gone the 8" width.
     
  20. Nov 29, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Nov 2013 Blue Lemon update

    Some months have passed since I've updated this build thread. It's not because I haven't been working towards a functional Jeep. The cards have been stacked against me with respect to the "easy route" to getting this sucker on the road, it seems.

    I pulled the motor as a result of the poor compression and sent it off to my local reputable machine shop. Thanks to a friend and my always-willing-to-help father-in-law (I lucked out in this deptartment):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Once cleaned and magnafluxed, the block exterior portion showed a rather long crack in the exterior - between the coolant passage and the driver's side of the block. It also revealed a previous repair in the casting that, according to my machinist, had all the hallmarks of a factory repair of a marginal block at the original assembly point. An attempt to weld up the block resulted in a bigger crack when it cooled. Sayonara original 258.

    The crack cannot be seen in this photo, but the strange block repair can just be made out just aft of the second freeze plug. It's being bisected in this photo by the light from the sun. The machinist devised a pressure test plate system and indeed this area proved to leak a tad.
    [​IMG]
    I've been spending the last few weeks selling off the good parts from the 258, and clearing out what little space I have before I go buying the next motor. I've decided on a small block Chevrolet conversion. This is a well worn path with reliable, reasonably priced components for big gains in torque. I'm blown away that one can order a brand new 4-bolt main 350 Chevy from Jegs or Summit for $1500. My machinist was going to get $2700 to rebuild the 258.

    My current plans have me reusing the T18 trans with adapters from Novak.

    In other news, I'm also going to be installing the Dirtworx bumper I ordered a few months back. I had to have some custom made brackets created because that feeble little factory crossmember at the rear was simply not going to hold this serious new bumper. Not sure how it could ever be made to do that - but maybe I'm just anal about such things. So I dumped the factory 1/8" metal crossmember and had a local steel supply outfit build three pieces of 1/4" steel to my specifications to which my Dirtworx bumper will be bolted. I'll try to get some pics up of that when I do it (maybe tomorrow if I can pull it off).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
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