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Exhaust Valve Help!

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by cj51961, May 1, 2013.

  1. May 1, 2013
    cj51961

    cj51961 New Member

    Connecticut
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Hi I am new here, this is actually my first post. I bought my 61 cj5 a year ago and drove it around for a month or so before it started having major overheating problems. The symptoms were very quick overheating, radiator had several pinholes leaking thru, and at the end right before I shut it down I noticed some bubbling around #4 head gasket.

    It took me untill now to get financially ready and motivated enough to dig into it. So after a $500 new radiator, New water pump installed I decided I better do the head gasket. After getting the head off and seeing how great the head and gasket looked I was perplexed. I did however have a lot of black sooty build up on all 4 cylinders, really bad on #4!!! At that point I can see that all 4 exhaust valves are burnt and #3 has a sizable crack in it.

    So after getting the exhaust manifold off and side valve cover I found that the nut from the rear exhaust stud was gone! That must have been the source of the bubbling excess gunk around #4 head gasket area.

    I searched for the valve compressor c-482 i think? as lsited in my FSM. I couldn't find it anywhere. I ended up buying a craftsman valve compressor that I have had zero luck with so far. I can get in on the retainer and tighten it to the valve but even tightened all the way the spring is not compressing very much and the lock keepers are showing no signs of coming out even after some tapping with a screwdriver.

    So I have $120 worth of new valves, springs and guides from walcks here and I cannot figure out for the life of me why I can get these springs apart.

    It is possible to do with the tappets still in place there right. The tappets arn't obsrtucting the keepers from dropping out?

    I am going to take this spring compressor back to sears and try another one from somewhere else. Does any one have a compressor that they know works for this job that they could get me the make and model # of? or a picture?

    Am i missing something here?

    I have seached thru every possible previous thread I could find on this subject and only one other seemed to have this problem. He had success with penetrating oil and the pickle fork method????? Searched for that didn't find anything. Anyone know how to use the fork for this?

    Any Help would be a HUGE help to me because I am just dying to get this thing back together and drive my JEEP!!!! Thanks guys!
     
  2. May 1, 2013
    cj51961

    cj51961 New Member

    Connecticut
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    Aug 15, 2012
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    11
    Also forgot to mention although im sure you guys figured it out already, This is an F-134
     
  3. May 1, 2013
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
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    811
    Welcome aboard from Calif.

    Here is a thought for you------turn the engine until a valve is as far off the seat as it will go. Install the spring compressor on that valve spring. Turn the engine until the valve is seated---or at least the lifter is back down.

    Now try to get the keepers out.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  4. May 1, 2013
    cj51961

    cj51961 New Member

    Connecticut
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
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    11
    Hey Mike,

    Thankyou, I tried that as well. I had the same train of thought like maybe it will unload it and allow some space at the bottom of the stem, but oddly the valve still rode up and down on the tappet and the compressor did not keep it up after wards because the valve compressor is clamped to the valve head so its exerting pressure downward i guess. Thankyou for the reply though. Keep the ideas coming.

    I am really not happy with this compressor. I've seen others that have a flat surface about the size of the valve head like a C clamp where the clamp meets the valve head but this one just has a post about the size of a push rod and its scratching the hell out of the valve heads. And it doesnt seem to exert pressure evenly because of this....I need a diffrent valve spring cpmpressor!!!! Napa and autozone dont have it, I dont know where to get one!
     
  5. May 2, 2013
    Philip-TX

    Philip-TX Member

    Flower Mound, Tx
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    156
    I made one out of wood clamps...worked, got it done, cheap.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. May 2, 2013
    grannyscj

    grannyscj Headed to the Yukon

    Anchorage, AK
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
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    1,758
    Have you tried picking up the valve with a magnet? I'm not familiar with the F134 but most pushrod heads I've done the valves would ride up and down with the retainer. To pull the locks I'd make sure the sping is all the way down then either push the valve stem up by hand or pull it up with a magnet and slide over to snatch a lock. Gunk will make these things stick together until persuaded to move.
     
  7. May 2, 2013
    cj51961

    cj51961 New Member

    Connecticut
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Grannycj Im not sure I quite follow what you meant but Phillips picture gave me a good Idea! Yesterday I was trying to use the spring compressor like I've seen them used before with the bottom fork below the retainer and I was getting nowhere. It was extremely hard to squeez and i was not able to get the spring to compress.


    So after seeing your pic with the fork in between the spring coils I decided to try that and was able to get the springs to compress all the way up.....Tons of room between the bottom of the spring and the retainer but still even after lots of penetrating spray persuasion with a hammer and pry bar, and even tried to use an open end wrench to try and get the off the valve stem.....NO DICE!!!

    The retainer and locks will not budge. I can spin the retainer around and around, and it feels like a thin piece of metal as a cap over a thicker piece. It spins and spins free but wont drop down. I even tried backing the tappet adjusters all the way down to make more room. It made so much clearance I could fit the open ended 1/2 in wrench in between!

    I cant even see that the keepers have a split in them so im starting to wonder if I have some other sort of keeper here? As far as I know the engine is factory 1961 internals.

    Im getting real frustrated at this point. Im just a noobie to these style engines. Besides going to a VO-Tech school and taking auto for 3 years Im a novice. I appreciatte the help so far guys!
     
  8. May 2, 2013
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Exhaust valve I assume, probably has a rotator from your description. As to the "wont drop down"------first you must lift it up toward the spring, then remove the split cone keepers.

    Should be similar to this.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. May 2, 2013
    kamel

    kamel Senior Curmudgeon

    Erlanger, Kentucky
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    891
    The valve removal tool is a Blue Point tool. Isn't Blue point snap-on?? Ask for a flathead valve removal tool. After all, the F head exhaust valving is a flathead...

    Using the BP tool raises the valve as well as the springs. I usually take a rubber hammer and hit the valve with it whilst the BP tool has the valve up.

    I NEVER stick my fingers in there to remove the keepers. I've seen that tool slip and if a finger was in there it would be nasty. The tool I use to remove l the keepers is a telescopic magnet. I use a hemostat to install the keepers and the magnet to retrieve if a keeper goes astray.
     
  10. May 2, 2013
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    "the magnet to retrieve if a keeper goes astray."

    I've seen the tool slip too. I recall once having the valve spring shoot a keeper about thirty feet away, into a rain soaked lawn at night... and I needed the vehicle to be driving by the next morning. That was a tense half hour, until I found it.
     
  11. May 2, 2013
    cj51961

    cj51961 New Member

    Connecticut
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    OK so after alot of fussing with it I was finnaly able to get one valve out. I used the valve compressor on the spring to loosen it up a few times. Sprayed copius amounts of PB blaster on it and then tapped up on the bottom of the retainer with a wrench. After that I was able to pop the retainer up with the compressor, and one keeper fell out. I did use my telescoping magnet to catch it and worked like magic. Luckily that was the valve that had a crack in it I really needed to change so if for nothing else at least thats done! But the other 3 are still burnt really badly so I'll be back out in the garage tomorrow to try the other 3 again. Hopefully now I have it figured out....There is going to be a long session of adjusting nessecary after all this!
     
  12. May 3, 2013
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Nov 27, 2006
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    2,793
    Could always go to one of the flathead ford or dodge sites and ask how they do it?
     
  13. May 3, 2013
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    On the flathead Fords that I have worked on, the guide is held in with c clip, and you pull it then pull out the entire valve, guide, spring, and retainers etc as a unit.
     
  14. May 3, 2013
    grannyscj

    grannyscj Headed to the Yukon

    Anchorage, AK
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    If we are talking about the flathead engine wouldn't it be the L-134?
     
  15. May 3, 2013
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    F-head is half-a-flattie.
     
  16. May 3, 2013
    grannyscj

    grannyscj Headed to the Yukon

    Anchorage, AK
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    Not going to disagree. I think they are both boat anchors. But we should get straight what we are talking about to solve the problem.
     
  17. May 3, 2013
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    No argument. Except about boat anchors.

    But if he is working on an exhaust valve (in the block) there is no difference from the L-head, and flathead methods apply, even in an F-head.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
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