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Hot Starting Problems

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Ted1289, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    I have an 84 CJ7 with a 78 AMC 360, headers, and a HEI dizzy. The Jeep runs good and with a few pumps of the gas fires right up when its cold. The problem is after it gets up to operating temperature and is then shut down and allowed to sit for about 10 minutes it won't restart. The confusing part is, if I turn the dizzy clockwise it will start again. It will at times backfire until I turn the dizzy back to the original position. I set the timing with a light and by ear so I doubt that timing is the issue, although I'm not very experienced with engines I know it was correct. I first thought that because the headers were about 1/4" from the starter that the hot starter was the problem but I've since wrapped them and nothing has changed. The dizzy is brand new (from Ebay) so I hope that it is not defective because I can't return it. I didn't have this problem until I installed the HEI, plug wires, and headers.
    Any thoughts? I'm afraid to drive it anywhere on a short trip in fear that it won't restart.
     
  2. Dec 22, 2011
    SandhillMike

    SandhillMike Moderator

    Archer, Fla
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    moved to tech forum, not really off topic.
     
  3. Dec 22, 2011
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    Is the non restart problem A. turns over just fine, but will not fire? or B. wont turn over normally.

    A. is probably fuel or ignition related, B is probably ground, power, or starter related.
     
  4. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    I would say A, it will just crank like normal but not start. One thing that I forgot to mention is that my fuel filter had no return so I thought replaced that and ran a return back to the tank. Before replacing the filter I cracked the fuel line at the carb to see if I had pressure and I did so I thought vapor lock, so I ran the reurn line but it didn't help.
     
  5. Dec 22, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Start with the distributor. May have a connection issue or a component that is heat soaked. Is this a new distributor? Used? Converted? Off shore brand? Did you open up the gap on the spark plugs? What gauge of wiring are you running to the distributor? How is it wired?
     
  6. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    I bought the HEI off of Ebay and it was listed as new but I don't know the brand. I am trying to find the invoice and instructions so that I can call the company and explain the problem to them. I didn't adjust the gap on the plugs, what should it be when using the HEI? I ran 14 wire back to the fuse block and verified that it is hot in the key on position. I also disconnected the return fuel line at the tank to make sure that the line wasn't clogged and it appears to be fine.
     
  7. Dec 22, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Ok. When switching to HEI you want the plug gap at around .045" for optimum performance. Sounds like you have large enough gauge wire to run the HEI properly. I'd suggest running it until it's warm and get it to act up. Check for weak/no spark first. If that's the case then pull the cap and see if the module is getting hot. If so then that could be the issue. Also check and see if the coil is getting hot at the same time. It's also possible the coil pickup is a problem but I'd check the coil and module first. Might also check and see if the white heat transfer grease is between the module and distributor body. I'd do this even before starting it up.
    If the spark is good and strong when it acts up then I'd look at fuel related issues.
     
  8. Dec 22, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Oh, one other thing. Make sure you have full or close to battery voltage to the HEI. If it isn't getting enough that could be causing this as well. At least 12.5 or so volts.
     
  9. Dec 22, 2011
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    check that the power wire gets power when cranking.
     
  10. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    Thanks guys, I will try everything suggested. If the power wire wasn't hot when the engine was cranking why would it start when cold?
    I found and emailed the company that I bought it from so maybe they can shed some light on it. It is supposed to have a lifetime warranty so we'll see what they say.
     
  11. Dec 22, 2011
    LarryD

    LarryD Member

    Gallup NM/ 4 Corners
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    The HEI module in the distributor should be installed with a thermal grease, they can overheat. If the engine turns over normally but no fire to the plugs focus on the distributor. The module or internal coil, They are normally pretty trouble free once you get them set up right. X2 on the full 12 volts to the module, they do need the correct voltage to function.
    This may help.

    http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2008/11/01/hmn_feature19.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  12. Dec 22, 2011
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    Did the problem start as soon as you installed the distributor, or has it run fine for a while, then the problem came along.

    Is the battery grounded at the engine, or is there a good ground strap from the engine to the body. And the distributor should also have a ground line hooked to a good ground.

    In many years of fussing with automotive devices of many kinds, bad grounding is the most common failure I see.
     
  13. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    Wow I have a lot of things to check. To the best of my knowledge the problem happened when I installed the HEI. I will have to look into the grounding tomorrow when I can see things better. I know that the HEI is not grounded at least by means of a seperate wire, I don't remember seeing anything in the instructions about grounding it although it's easy enough to do.
     
  14. Dec 22, 2011
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    Been a long time since I played with an HEI, but as I recall there are three wires comming off the unit-------at least the GM Delco ones------hot, ground, and tach signal.

    You can see that there are 3 wires in photo 6 on the above link to HEI servicing.



    Hopefully Nick will jump in here again, whatever he says is Gospel in my book.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  15. Dec 22, 2011
    Ted1289

    Ted1289 New Member

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    Mike, maybe I'm missing something but I think mine has a terminal for power and a terminal for a tach but no ground. They are for sale on Ebay for about $59 and there are good pics and a decent write up.
     
  16. Dec 22, 2011
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If it cranks slow when hot, and you turn the distributor and it starts, I'd say you have too much advance.
     
  17. Dec 22, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    HEI grounds through the distributor body and in this case the timing cover. No extra ground wire here. If you suspect a ground issue here you can add a ground strap between the distributor body and engine but normally not needed. Good advice on checking the chassis to body and chassis to engine ground. These can be problematic. Especially on AMC engines.

    Thanks MikeS!
     
  18. Dec 25, 2011
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
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    mine was doing this as well earlier this summer. IIRC, I played with the carb adjustments and it seemed to help, but my bro told me to replace my coil, that it was getting hot and on its way out. I replaced it and vola, problem solved. I know your pain, I stalled it once in a intersection by pulling the clutch too fast and it wouldnt start and three guys jumped out of a car and helped me push it out of the way. (talk about embarassing) had to leave it running if I ran into a gas station out of fear of a no start.. I hear ya, pain in the butt, Try a new coil. I just recalled your working on a HEI, I was running a points dist. Don't know if it matters though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
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