304 Ignition Upgrade

My good friend finally bought a jeep. 1972 CJ5 w/ a 304. Has a new Edelbrock carb and manifold. He'd like to upgrade the ignition as well. I've done some research and find the 78+ Duraspark upgrade is popular. I don't think he needs/wants to bump that up to a Ford TFI as well????

In totaling the cost of distr, cap, rotor, wires, coil in good quality from RockAuto it comes to $136. 4WD has a complete HEI unit for about the same price. My questions is regarding availability of replacement parts for the HEI vs the Duraspark.

 

Hei all the way....and parts no problem to get them at a very good price

my 2 cents

 

If all you are asking about parts availability, the HEI wins.

Lots of coverage of this on the 'net though.

If you want an ignition upgrade, how about just using the Kettering trigger (points) with a MSD 6A module? Points will last a looong time when all they do is trigger the new MSD module. You can use the TFI cap and a MSD CapAdapt on the Delco distributor, with HEI wires. There are a couple of ways to convert the Delco to pointless too.

I put a Duraspark distributor in my CJ-6, using a HEI module. Lots and lots of options on this front.

 

If I may join the thread with a question, what advantage does the TFI cap and wires offer? To make sure I understand what you (Tim) were suggesting, one can use their Delco Remy point distributor with an MSD 6A module where the point simply trigger the module? If I can accomplish that with my stock distributor I'm wondering why I should want the later model cap. Does the MSD overpower the insulating capability of the stock cap and wires?

 

The HEI wires are a more modern design, where the wire snaps onto a post rather than fitting into a socket. The big cap and rotor reduces the chance of arc-over inside the cap, simply by putting more distance between the contacts. Yes, you can trigger the MSD module from the points - it's very flexible. Here are the instructions: http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/msd-6201_frm29772.pdf - Summit puts the instructions for a lot of the products they sell up on their site.

There are people on here (Patrick?) who use the MSD module with a conventional distributor cap. Seems ok - I'd guess that the big cap will last longer with the hotter spark from the MSD, and you can use the HEI wires which snap on to the cap with a satisfying click. Don't know any more specifics about the CapAdapt - it looks like its made for the MSD Pro-Billet distributors, but apparently it fits factory distributors. I would look to see which MSD distributor normally takes the Delco cap, then get the CapAdapt that works with that distributor.

 

Tim, in your earlier post on this thread you mention using a Delco distributor. I guess I just assumed it would NOT fit a 304. How interchangeable are domestic distributors? My experience with ignitions has never brought me to this level of experimentation. Could you elaborate?

For this current project I'm leaning towards an external GM HEI module, Ford e-coil and an HEI cap/rotor to handle that energy level. Just need to determine which distributor to use. I'd read somewhere an 80's vintage Ford V8 Motorcraft distributor will fit the AMC 304. In sourcing parts RockAuto lists parts at very reasonable prices for an 80's Ford. For example, Standard Motor Products cap adapter for $5.79. Nothing against MSD, just trying to keep this project in budget.

 

The points distributors used in the AMC-engined Jeeps are Delco-Remy. Functionally they are the same as those used in GM products, except that the body and stick-in dimensions are made for the AMC engines. You can't use the distributor for a Chevy in an AMC, or vice-versa - but they use the same points, cap, vacuum advance, etc.

You can only use AMC distributors in AMC engines. The Ford distributors will not work. Same deal as with the Delcos - AMC/Jeep used a Motorcraft Duraspark distributor in their engines, as did Ford. The parts interchange, they function the same way, but they are not the same distributor... only the AMC distributor will fit properly into the engine block.

Realize that AMC never used the big cap setup, so to get it, you have to use Ford parts on your AMC distributor. There are lots of writeups about this on the net, if you search. Look for "Duraspark TFI upgrade" or "Team Rush upgrade".

 

OK, was not aware that the pre-electronic were Delco-Remy. I've been reading all the write ups, just needed some clarification.

Since Motorcraft Duraspark were used on both AMC & Ford that would be the crossover point. An electronic distributor for a 78-90 AMC 304, use the Ford cap adapter, cap & rotor, Ford e-coil, GM HEI module with a fabbed bracket/heat sink.

Thanks Tim, you are a great asset to this board!

 

Glad I could help!

 

From someone who has done this particular ignition upgrade on my '76 cj5 w/ 304: I would definitely recommend this upgrade.
My configuration:
-'79 AMC dist.
-Ford cap adaptor w/ cap & rotor by MSD
-Early-Mid 90's Ford F250-F350 e-coil
-Ignition module by MSD
-MSD plug wires (8mm I believe)
I chose to go with MSD because of the reliability and service I have had with them over the years. Also, due to the savings in all of the other items I could afford to put a little more money into the module & plug wires. The MSD cap adapter, cap & rotor are quite affordable.
Recommendation:
Go ahead and make sure you get a brass-tipped rotor, not standard metal. The brass material transfers the spark a lot more efficiently. The other will end up leaving a burnt residue on each post from the higher, more intense, spark. It just makes for a more consistent and spark transfer.
All-in-all, a very easy install and affordable upgrade. You will definitely notice your 304 having more get-up in its' step. My did at least...much more responsive.

 

CJ Joe,

For what it's worth here is what I did.. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/team-rush-1972-304-a-924518/

Go down to "Now If I were You" on JeepHammers reply... Or go to Junk Yard Genius website for more info...

The gray wire on the left has been rerouted to a permanent position since this photo...



SC

 

I'm learning as I go, and I tend to start out simple. I like to tinker with this stuff but not so much yet that I want to try to find TDC and swap out to a duraspark ignition in a 73 that runs fairly well.

I'm going to install an MSD 6A box in my stock points Delco setup. At this point, I plan to use the stock cap and wires (both new). The wires are quality spiro pro 8mm Taylor wires. Do I need to drill my cap to vent the electrical charge to prevent misfire? The MSD instructions say to do this on a "small" cap. Is the Delco considered "small"?

 

Yes, I would consider it a small cap. But maybe they mean really small, like VW size. You could call or write to MSD and ask them. I think they have a forum too.

I have not heard of drilling the cap. Downside of drilling the cap is you let water in. I'd try it witout drilling first.

If you can get a not-black cap, that would be better. Supposedly the carbon they use to color the caps black (cheap pigment) increases the likelihood of arc-over. Thus a blue or tan cap would be better.

 

I have a black cap. Looking at Rockauto, the other color they have is grey; I assume you get the color pictured:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2063508&cc=1309441

Edit...never mind... I see a blue one at summit

 

The blue one is a DR429X - looks like it's out of production. Standard has dropped a lot of numbers for older cars.

You could get the gray cap, or Advance Auto has a red Mallory cap, or a sickly tan Accel cap.

 

Thanks. I found a blue one at Summit. My Standard coil is the one for use with the external resistor. I have the resistor wire, and I know I need to disconnect it. But, can the same coil be used? The instructions don't say I can't.

 

If the MSD instructions tell you to remove the resistor wire, then you can remove it and use the coil you have.

 

I'm planning to mount the 6A that I got yesterday on the fender well. Instead of mounting it up top where there isn't enough flat surface, I was planning to mount it down by the voltage regulator. I would have the plug looking up the fender. This jeep will not see deep water crossings. Does this area get spray from wet roads? I'm assuming not too much since the voltage regulator and solenoid are there.

 

My 74 has a Delco-Remy points distributor. Which TFI cap, MSD CapAdapt and rotor would I upgrade to if I added the 6A box into the equation?

 

You really want the cap-adapt? You can buy a complete reman '78-on Jeep Duraspark distributor for the price of the cap-adapt, if you really want the big, flat cap.

I would just use the Kettering trigger (points) to trigger the MSD module. When you add the MSD module, the points no longer switch the coil, and the points will last until the fiber block wears out. Or you can convert to Pertronix breakerless ignition ... or you can convert the Delco distributor to a VR sensor as in this article. http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj502.html