turn signal flasher - psrt number??

turn signal flasher - part number??

OK, I have a bunch of jeeps and old turn signals in the shop. There isn't one of them that, when I have the turn signal signal either left or right that the small light on the sparton unit flashes too.

We can assume that all the electrics are connected properly and the bulb is good and everything is grounded properly.

All have a 550 flasher.

After fooling around with it for more time than it is worth, I decided that the flasher (550) is the wrong flasher.

Does anyone have a good manufacturer/part number for a turn signal flasher that will illuminate the sparton unit light properly??

It's a small thing, but annoying...

I think it might be a tung-sol p273d, but I'm not sure.

thanks

kamel

 

I went through this a couple of years ago. I found a CEC-brand 550 flasher, which looked pretty old, at a local parts house. The Sparton light flashes perfectly with this flasher. Before finding this flasher, I tried a Napa flasher, a Wagner, and I can't remember what else, but nothing would allow the Sparton light to function correctly. Since then, I've tried to find some more of the CEC flashers, but it seems as though they've been discontinued long ago. I guess they really don't make them like they used to.

 

To get that indicator in the Sparton to work all you need is a standard 3 terminal flasher can. The "L" terminal is your load (lights), "X" is +12V in, and the "P" terminal is for the pilot or indicator on the Sparton. A 2-terminal flasher will NOT work! The 3-terminal units are available at any auto parts place. I like the electronic style better than the cheaper ones using a bimetalic strip.

Stan

 

Re: turn signal flasher - part number??

Stan,

Thanks for the input.

However, what I am looking for is a part number for a flasher that makes the sparton light work. If anyone has a sparton unit wherin the small green light on the sparton unit blinks while the flasher is on -- that's the flasher part number I need.

The used 550 flashers I have do not fire the indicator light at all. So I bought a new one, and the problem with the generic 550 flasher is that in the rest position it applies a small voltage to the sparton indicator light so that in the off position the light remains on. In the turn position everything works (flashes) properly.

Correct flashing sequence - tail light on, sparton light off
tail light off, sparton light on

I was surprised to find that none of the jeeps and none of the salvaged turn signals that I have in the shop have a working sparton indicator light, so I have no reference jeep to look at.

My guess is that the 'standard' three pin flasher is not truly standard and that there are different configurations of the flasher at rest. The first person to post a reply indicated that some worked on his jeep; some didn't.

It is safe to assume that there is no problem with the electrical connections.

I can get around this with a couple of diodes and some rewiring, but I'd rather just have the right part. This is not a life-altering problem, but an annoyance.

 

The 550 3-terminal should be correct, it is the one that makes the Sparton pilot work. Thermal or electronic should not make a difference as such (although I like the electronic much better). If your flashing sequence is tail light on, Sparton light off, that is incorrect. You have a wiring problem (or at least a non-standard wiring setup). See:

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Tech/SignalWiring.html

For wiring diagrams for the Signal-Stat model 900 switch, it's the same setup as the Sparton. Correct flash sequence for the Sparton should be tail light on, Sparton light on. The current military turn signal switches do work in an alternate pattern of tail light on, signal switch pilot off, but it's a very different wiring setup on those. Basically you get ground for the pilot through the turn signal lamps rather than a discrete ground like the Sparton or Signal-Stat.

Oh, that brings up this point. You may need to run a separate ground from the Sparton switch to the Jeep. If you are trying to ground it through the mounting alone that's probably not going to work! Without a good ground the pilot will never light up.

Stan

 

I still have the original Tung-Sol P273D in my 61 CJ-5. I don't see how the flasher would keep the indicator light from working; after all, it worked for over thirty years. I'm way ignorant about a lot of stuff, so that doesn't matter. I just opened my Sparton unit up the other day for a look-see; my indicator light wasn't working either, but the front and rear lights work fine, sorta. After 43 years it was kinda dirty, so I sprayed some contact cleaner through it and blew it out. Chickened out when it came to opening up the switch itself; that Jesus spring always gets me. I'm going to check the ground like Stan suggested; seems to make sense. I did notice that when I tried the right turn signal, it would flash fast, then when I tried it again, it worked fine. What's up with that? New tailight assembly on the rear, haven't ever looked at the front, but I suspect the problem is inside the switch itself, you know, where that Jesus spring lives.

 

Ground the sparton with its own ground wire. It made my sparton light work. All I have is my experience and it worked for me.

When it comes to Jeep electronics I have learned to trust Stan.

 

I am sure that Stan knows a lot about jeep electricity.

However, reasonable people can disagree.

First, regarding sequence. If the correct sequence is that the indicator and tail light are on at the same time, then we would only need a two prong flasher with both wires connected to the same terminal.

Second, the wiring cannot be wrong. It is Jeep wiring. White wire from flasher connects to white wire from turn signal, black wire from flasher connects to black wire from turn signal, red wire connects to 14 amp fuse which connects to 12 volts. Everything gets grounded properly.

The flasher, when it is flashing, is taking the 12 volts from terminal X and switching it to P then to L, back and forth as long as the flasher is on. This creates the alternate sequence -- indicator on, tail light off, then indicator off, tail light on.

I tried this on half a dozen Sparton systems including one still in the jeep, and got the same results.

Now, it is possible that my new NAPA 550 flasher is bad, and I'm going to get another one tomorrow, but I don't think so. I'm going to take the flasher apart to see how I could modify it so that in the quiescent state it applies 0 volts on the black wire instead of 12 volts.

I have one of the Tung-Sol flashers, but it is defective; it only hums. However, it does not turn the indicator light on with the switch off, so that could be the solution, assuming one can still get a tung-sol part.

When I get a current part number, or if the modification to the 550 is possible, or if the new 550 I have is defective, I'll post on here.

In order to make the indicator flash you do need a good ground. Perhaps you could scratch off some paint on the steering column and Sparton unit where they connect.

Thanks all for your input.

kamel

 

Very good thread, I have had similar issues and experiences. I had a signal stat where the light stayed on all the time. ANNOYING!! Messed and messed with it and gave up. Replaced the flasher with a stock Sparton flasher years later and it worked like a charm. While it doesn't seem like the vintage of the flasher should matter, in my experience it does. Who knows? Don't question it...just accept it!

Make sure you have a bulb in the sparton...some I have gotten had no bulb or even wiring for the bulb, I believe some were made this way.

I had to sand a little spot on my newly painted column for the switch to ground to, didn't want to run the extra wire. I put a small ball of aluminum foil there when I clamped it done to ensure a connection, still working 8 months later.

I will get the info off the 2 working flahsers I have and post here later. The first is a stock sparton(tung sol?) flasher that came with a "take off" sparton. The second one came from one of those big panel van delivery trucks with the roll up back door that every junkyard in the country seems to have at least one of. In my experience old pickups are worth a look also at the junkyard, sometimes they have a signal stat added that you can take the flasher off of. I peek under the dash of every truck with a hitch in search of the "electronic" flasher.....found one.....but it did not light the sparton light!!

 

I pulled the electronic flasher in my Jeep and set it up on the bench. When it operates it flashes the pilot and the load at the same time. Does that in the Jeep as well. I tried my old tung-sol thermal flasher and it flashes the load and pilot at the same time as well. Also went through this on the M715 and it was the same way until I replaced the signal switch with a military one.

As to the grounding, I prefer running a separate ground wire so I don't have to remove any paint on the steering column but if you don't mind scraping the paint away that should work.

Found a few good links on this too:

http://vernco.com/id250.htm

http://www.mgcarclub.com/cny/electrical_systems.htm

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et104.htm

The mgcarclub link has the most detailed info on it in the "turn signals" section. Look at the schematic and follow the sequence of events he outlines and you'll see that the pilot and load should flash at the same time.

You can't use a pilot on a 2-terminal flasher (see the vernco link). If you did that the flasher would run all the time since the pilot would complete the circuit and activate the flashing function of the flasher can. On the 3-terminal, setting the turn signal switch completes the circuit to the signal lamps. This activates the flasher can which then internally closes the contacts for the pilot.

If you haven't tried one yet, you might try an electronic flasher instead of the thermal style, that may help. The electronic ones are more steady and reliable.

Stan

 

I checked the two flashers I have, the one that came with the "like NOS" sparton was Tung-Sol P273D. The other I got from the big panel truck is a "Rounder" "Buss" flasher 550. They look more or less the same, although the tungsol is embossed with the name, obviously old school.

The electronic flasher I have is a 2 terminal. I swear I had a three terminal that did not work, but I maybe mistaken (it has been known to happen).

Some of my issues may have arisen from not having the terminals right on the flasher. I had it hooked up with spade terminals, then found a molded plastic "base" and may have miswired it, in turn making it not flash the pilot light due to internal damage even when later hooked correctly. Whew! Hope that makes sense.

The Rounder flasher is a little louder and a little slower than the TungSol. I am using the Rounder right now.

 

Wish I had caught this thread sooner. I got my new Sparton Signal in last night from Nickmil and believe me it's brand new. Never been installed. It has the original round spade terminals on it.

I stopped @ Napa today and bought round terminals so I can re-wire the whole set up with them, and I bought some extras I think I'm going to put throughout the jeep. Seems like it'd make it easier to remove the grille with the headlights in them. Just unplug and remove and then plug back in when reinstalling.

Anyway, I bought a three prong flasher just hoping it was the correct one.

I too have the problem with my light not working. Can't remember for sure but seems like once before I tried to connect the wires to the flasher and found that I could make the light come on and blink with the lights but it stayed on all the time.

My current harnes from the Sparton doesn't have the plug on the end for the flasher to plug into so I just have spade terminals connecting to the flasher, hence it was sort of trial and error for me.

This new one has a 3 prong plug so if I get it hooked up all I should have to do is plug the flasher into the terminal.

Wish me luck.

 

One other thing, the existing Sparton I have is practically identical to the brand new one I just bought with one exception.

The existing Sparton has a group of wires in it that are Red, Gray, Orange, White, & Yellow, Black.

The new one has the same except replace the Red with Blue.

I'm assuming I just make this swap when I hook it up, meaning whereever my red one is connected now, I should connect the blue one in it's place.

 

John, when I did mine this was the color code setup I had (my wires are old so there may be some discrepancy here):

1) LF = single yellow wire
2) LR= single green wire

3) RF = dark grey wire in 3-wire plug
4) RR = orange wire in 3-wire plug

5) brake switch power = light grey wire in 3-wire plug

6) flasher load: white wire to flasher socket (terminal "L")
7) flasher pilot: black wire to flasher socket (terminal "P")

+12V to terminal "X" in the flasher socket.

You should have 7 wires though, not 6. Is there another wire color?

Stan

 

Yeah Stan, there probably is. Seems like a white wire with a red stripe. Not for sure though. Just got it in last night and quickly compared the two.

I'm probably not going to start on the swap over till I get my tire carrier mounted, maybe this afternoon.

Then I'm going to take the carrier back to the welder and reconfigure it so that it'll take a gas can and maybe even a jack. But most importantly I want to swing it from the crossmember and try to put a tire on it so I can be sure how it needs to be modified.

 

John, I took my old Sparton apart tonight and checked wires. Mine's a model SCS 3R (self cancelling switch). Here's the actual Sparton color codes:

LF=yellow
LR=light blue

RF=black
RR=orange

Brake=purple or brown, mine is so old it's hard to tell...

Load=white
Pilot=black

Having 2 black wires makes it hard to tell what's what but that's how mine came. Also you'll note that some of my color codes change between the Sparton and the Jeep wiring itself. Don't know if that's original but probably is. Here's how things crossed over in mine:

1) LF = single yellow wire (Sparton: yellow)
2) LR= single green wire (Sparton: light blue)

3) RF = dark grey wire in 3-wire plug (Sparton: black)
4) RR = orange wire in 3-wire plug (Sparton: orange)

5) brake switch power = light grey wire in 3-wire plug (Sparton: purple or brown)

6) flasher load: white wire to flasher socket (terminal "L") (Sparton: white)
7) flasher pilot: black wire to flasher socket (terminal "P") (Sparton: black)

+12V to terminal "X" in the flasher socket.

So the best way to check all this is to take the switch apart if you have to and check it with a meter to be sure you get things hooked up right!

Stan

 

Thorough job, Stan.
I have what I think is a later sparton (72-75) that uses a 6 wire plug in a pyramid shape. It does not follow that code.
Another I have uses the "bullet" connectors and follows that code.
I found my 3 terminal electronic flasher it is a "signal stat" brand #263 SAE J590 & J945, it DOES NOT flash the sparton indicator, although it does flash the lights. Seems fine, but maybe it is damaged internally?

 

Thanks Stan...I saved a copy of that text in Word so I can take it with me, but honestly I'm not sure how much of my wiring is original.

Right now my Sparton is working fine except it doesn't flash the little green light.

I'm pretty sure I can disconnect one wire at a time and then reconnect the similar wire on the replacement Sparton before moving to the next wire. So long as the colors are the same and all of them are except the one Red vs Blue.

I also have a lead on a factory wiring harness that I might wait on to see how hard it is to replace them. I like the idea of having the factory wire colors in place, just haven't been fortunate enough to have it that way.

 

> Another I have uses the "bullet" connectors and follows that code.

Yep, that's the kind I have, bullet connectors and all.

> I found my 3 terminal electronic flasher it is a "signal stat" brand #263
> SAE J590 & J945, it DOES NOT flash the sparton indicator, although it
> does flash the lights. Seems fine, but maybe it is damaged
> internally?

Yes, it can be damaged internally, but I doubt it is. I looked that up on the Truck Lite site (http://www.truck-lite.com) and the 263 is a good one. That's a 3-terminal electronic type that will handle a good bit of current. A 2-terminal will work the system but not the pilot (at least not without some hacking around with diodes or relays).

I'm not sure why there seem to be so many problems getting this to work. May be something else going on that we haven't figured out yet. The pilot's pretty simple in theory; good bulb and wire, good case ground on the switch and a good 3-terminal flasher and it should work.

One thing I've found with old turn signals though is there's no easy way to do it. You almost have to take things apart piece by piece, check it all with a meter, and verify every wire's source and destination. Write all of it down (color codes) and follow a standard 7-wire turn signal schematic (like the one on the cj3b site).

Stan