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FI a Dauntless

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Warloch, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. May 14, 2010
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538

    Ya, it's still in the box, so it'd be easy to ship. Let me think about it for awhile........
    :beer:
     
  2. May 17, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Install process - I have been doing this a little at a time between other project commitments due the end of May...

    * DO NOT try to change the fittings on the pressure regulator. I contacted Retroteck initially about the regulator hitting a port on the side of my intake (see pics). I told them I was going to rotate things, and if that didn't work I was going to relocate the regulator and would probably need to swap the fittings. This didn't send up any red flags at the time... BUT when I tried to remove the fittings - things went south. To their credit, they are sending me a new regulator without the fittings installed for me to use.

    * Each install will require a bit of your 'own' fitting. My big issue was I needed to replace the entire fuel system as part of the install. I decided to use -6 AN fittings for my fuel system. On a recommendation from a friend, I went with Summit line and fittings (well - mostly their fittings - some special ones I got from other vendors where I could). I also got the line cutter and it worked GREAT. As an FYI - the PJ comes with a -8 fuel rail, and has reducers on each end to go to -6. If you have a lot of custom items to do, might be worth going -8 from the start.

    * I spent a lot of time chasing parts - mostly due to some unique items on my part. Full parts list next week.

    * As of the 17th, I have installed all but the final return hookup at the PJ unit as I am waiting on the Pressure Regulator they were going to ship Friday. Wire the fuel Pump, and I also have the O2 sensor to hook up, then fire it up and get going.

    Full version and pic notes from http://warloch.com/EFI.htm

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  3. May 17, 2010
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538
    I haven't had time to even drop the PJ unit on my manifold. I'm using an Offenhauser manifld so I may not have the same issue that you had to deal with. Guess I'll check it out tonight. As I recall you are using a Kenne Bell manifold, correct?
     
  4. May 18, 2010
    willys59cj5

    willys59cj5 Sponsor

    Gilroy, CA
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    That PJ is looking mighty fine sitting on that 225. Can't wait to hear how it runs.
     
  5. May 18, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    I am using the Kenne Bell Number One Intake - I also have a couple Offy's with one on the other build in the shop. The Offy 360 does not have as high of a rise from the base of the manifold, but the port that was the issue is in line with the rear Pside bolt hole on the intake. There is not one there on the Offy. Should have plopped it on before I took it all apart and tried it on it, but didn't.

    Worst case senario I see - you may need an additional spacer on the intake.
     
  6. May 18, 2010
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538
    I dropped my PJ unit on the Offy manifold today and the regulator hits on a raised nub on it. I didn't try it with their spacer/gasket though and that might be enough to allow it to clear. Are you using an additional spacer to clear yours?
     
  7. May 18, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    No additional spacer on mine - like I said though - the Kenne Bell is a bit of a high rise intake as it is. If you need to shorten it, contact Retrotech first. They will probably just send you the stuff for free to make it fit if you can tell them what you need.
     
  8. May 25, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Hmmm - so I put the O2 sensor in the exhaust pipe... Unloaded 2600# of fence material from the delivery simi... Hooked up the computer, spent 15mins putting params in and second guessing myself... Turned the key and it fired right up. Idle was a little high. Turned it off, turned 2 screws one turn each, reset TPS, fired right up and idles about 750-850 rpm... Hopped in and headed out the gate, sputtered at first, then smoothed out... tried to die at the first 2 stop signs, not a hickup after that... Ran like a raped ape :)

    Let's see... SHE IS MONEY - would be the best way to describe it.

    I am putting together the parts list and writing up the steps that I did different than the instructions. Most of my time was spent finding parts as NObody seems to carry AN stuff in this town so had to order things. If your going to completly redo your fuel system (like I did) and have all the parts on hand, it's a day to do it.

    All in all - money well spent. Runs better with just a few mins of things than several weekends tuning the carb was.
     
  9. May 25, 2010
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
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    4,538
    Awesome, glad to hear it. Especially since I shelled out the big bucks too. I just picked up a 1" spacer from Summit and the elbow for the return line still hits the manifold. Looks like if I could tilt the regulator ever so slightly it would fit. I'm going to take some pics and contact Retrotek to see what we can make work. Really happy you like the system. I'm excited. :beer:
     
  10. May 25, 2010
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,734
    now,can you please turn jeep on it's side and tell me how it's running . this is key for me to go this route ,,do you think it will idle clean lower like at 500-600.?possibly post a video?
     
  11. May 25, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member 2022 Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,294
    that's awesome Chuck.....x2 on a vid :beer:
    Jim
     
  12. May 25, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,212
    Now let's figure out fuel injecting an Fhead.....

    Really that's cool, I'm glad it worked out, will be something to look at down the road for me.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  13. May 25, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Posi - do NOT try to change the tilt on the reg - it will break and then just hit the 2ndaries throttle linkage (been there). Talk to Retrotek - they will have a solution for you or send you parts that have not been glued together (like they are shipped).

    Didn't try to move the idle lower. It's got a nice lope right now :)

    Sorry guys - I don't have a video camera that has sound... I'll see what I can scrounge as I think my son has one.
     
  14. May 26, 2010
    jeep67

    jeep67 Member

    Shasta, Ca
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    205
    Wow, so cool. This is giving me thoughts on spending money on the old jeep. Thanks again for sharing.
     
  15. May 26, 2010
    willys59cj5

    willys59cj5 Sponsor

    Gilroy, CA
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Glad to hear it runs so well Chuck. Want more reports on how it is running after it tunes itself more.
     
  16. Jun 1, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    While not as 'complete' as I might like - life is just moving too fast right now as I have to spend 2 of the next 3 weeks out of town on Buisness.

    So - for those interested - I will keep updating here and on my page as I can:

    Install process - Focus on what I did different than Retroteck's instructions

    * - DO NOT try to change the fittings on the pressure regulator. I contacted Retroteck initially about the regulator hitting a port on the side of my intake (see pics). I told them I was going to rotate things, and if that didn't work I was going to relocate the regulator and would probably need to swap the fittings. This didn't send up any red flags at the time... BUT when I tried to remove the fittings - things went south. To their credit, they are sending me a new regulator without the fittings installed for me to use.

    * - Each install will require a bit of your 'own' fitting. My big issue was I needed to replace the entire fuel system as part of the install. I decided to use -6 AN fittings for my fuel system. On a recommendation from a friend, I went with Summit line and fittings (well - mostly their fittings - some special ones I got from other vendors where I could). I also got the line cutter and it worked GREAT. As an FYI - the PJ comes with a -8 fuel rail, and has reducers on each end to go to -6. If you have a lot of custom items to do, might be worth going -8 from the start.

    * - I spent a lot of time chasing parts - mostly due to some unique items on my part. I have listed most of the parts I used for the install below (a couple may have slipped through the cracks, but those were on the custom stuff I did).

    * - One of the big changes I made was to use a different thread sealant than Retroteck recommended - I used the Permatex that is not also a thread locker, but holds high pressure. This was so that I could take things apart if needed later.

    * - You can see that I ended up having the Regulator on the firewall side of the throttle body. This made for a nice clean return and I simply blocked the top output with a fitting from the Hi-Tech Demon Fuel line kit.

    * - I had no problems with the initial settings in the computer. From when I hooked up the O2 sensor (my last item to do) to when I got it fired up the first time was less than 20 mins.

    * - Since the initial startup and run of the jeep, I have played around with the torque settings, and idle. They make a huge difference in how rich the system runs. Still playing, but could just set it and run it.

    * - Right now, my system runs good with the torque levels of 265 (230 is stock, and I am not stock :) )


    Parts List (the majority of them - I did get some AN fittings locally for my custom install):

    Part Number Item Price
    AER-FBM3553 Hose assembly lube $12.75
    PFS-70026 POWERJECTION 3 KIT $1,649.95
    SUM-2200077 -6-3/8 MALE HARDTUBE FITTING $7.95
    SUM-220632 -6 AN COUPLER ALUMINUM $2.95
    SUM-220641 -06 AN FEMALE COUPLE $5.95
    SUM-220647 -06X1/4 NPT-JIC ALUMINUM $2.75
    SUM-220648 6AN TO 3/8 NPT ADAPTER $2.95
    SUM-220651 -06X1/4 90 JIC-NPT $7.25
    SUM-220652 -06X3/8 90 JIC-NPT $9.25
    SUM-220686 -06 45 HOSE END SWIVEL $13.95
    SUM-220687 -06 90 HOSE END SWIVEL $13.95
    SUM-220690 6AN HOSE END STRAIGHT $4.88
    SUM-230620 S.S. HOSE -6 20FT $74.95
    SUM-900040 BRAIDED HOSE CUTTERS UP TO -12 $35.95
    SUM-900106 #6 AN WRENCH 11/16 HEX $9.95
    EAR-230206ERL -6 FUEL FILTER $37.95
    458-400 ROLLOVER/VENT VALVE $14.99
    910-11604 HI-TECH DEMON FUEL LINE $59.99
    FLAPS Permatex Thread Sealant #56521
    AER-FBM3156 -8 90D M-F AN $18.95

    Pics for a taste (full list on my page).

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  17. Aug 6, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Update - so after more programming (I love just driving around to do this) I was getting a flat at higher RPMs and load conditions. I called thier support to ask what I should be looking at in the system when these conditions happened. They told me to turn on data logging and pointed me to the fields to check after capture of the info. Then the just wanted me to send them the logs for them to look at. I mailed them off the evening I did the run and had a response the next morning. "Running too lean" (pointed to the things I needed to look at) "boost torque and drive it some more"...

    Right now I am at 290 foot pounds of torque and the numbers say I could probably go up to @ 310. It is running real well, but I have not put the laptop on it in a couple days. Gonna go camping (taking the laptop) but am going to leave it there and see how it does.

    Fuel Pump - the one that comes with the kit is annoying. No other way to put it. The 'quiet' replacement is a WALBRO GSL392 - I got one for @105. Not installed yet, but will be before the trip next week.
     
  18. Aug 29, 2010
    zed

    zed Iowa- Gateway to Nebraska

    central iowa
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    745
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  19. Aug 29, 2010
    zed

    zed Iowa- Gateway to Nebraska

    central iowa
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    745
    Thanks for recording all this for us Warloch!

    Is it possible to use the original under the driver's seat tank in my 69 cj5 instead of upgrading to a rear tank with this?
    I am going to assume that i can not use the original 2bbl intake manifold? It would be nice but...

    Zed
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  20. Aug 30, 2010
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,466
    Any tank will work. However, you must be able to have 3 fittings for it to operate the best:
    1. Suppy Line
    2. Return Line
    3. Vent - this can not be a cap vent. I put a dedicated line in the top of mine with a rollover check valve in it.
     
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