80 CJ-5 repair/rebuild

I suppose this is an example of how good a rig can look, and yet be so BAD underneath. It's also an example of just how much a good thick coat of paint can hide
My goal with this project is to simply get my Jeep back and not have the body fall off from rust. I'm only "restoring" it in the sense of trying to eliminate the rust, and not just cover it up. Although, now that I see how bad it is, a thick coat of Rustoleum doesn't sound too bad.....
Anyway, here's what I started with. I got this Jeep in Washington DC for $1,200, and dragged it from there to Augusta, GA, to Wilder, VT, to Bakersfield, CA, to Centralia, WA.

I have towed it far more miles (4,500) than I have driven it (2,350). Not because it doesn't run, just that I was short a driver. My wife was very understanding of the fact that I was NOT letting go of this one. (my previous '72 was, uh, not a good experience), so she let me drag it all over the country on our quest to come home.


First thing I did was pull off the fenders, hood and window frame. My oldest daughter, 12, did all the ratchet work and helped with the lifting.


Next, I decided to pull the outer skin off the fenders to see just how bad the rust was. I assumed that a liberal coating of rust-stop or the equivalent would do the trick, but there simply wasn't enough left.


Here is the outer skin I removed:

So I cut out as much as I could, sanded the heck out of what was left, and broke out the sheet metal tools.

This is my first attempt EVER at actually replacing metal. This is the inner skin of the passenger side. I didn't get the curve at the top just right, so there are some hammer marks on it, and I didn't make it quite large enough, so it doesn't quite meet up with the top rail. Oh well... Also, my wire feed simply would NOT go low enough, and I kept burning through. Hence the ugly welds.


Another view of the inner skin:


Now for the fun part: With the loan of a decent welder (thank you, dear father-in-law!!!), I put on the outer skin. As you can see, I REALLY like to weld. And here is where I may have made my first (of many, I'm sure) mistake: I could NOT think of what to put on the metal between the layers. I figured any paint I could put in there would burn off from welds (if it even stuck in the first place), and I wanted SOMETHING in there. The final choice? A liberal coating of wheel bearing grease. The way I figure it, it wouldn't burn off when I welded (much, as it turned out), and it would be a better moisture barrier than anything else I could use. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll find out in about 10 years.


The drivers side wasn't so bad, so I risked keeping the inner panel and treating it over and over with rust converter.


And here are the "twins" as I call them. I was really happy with the way the second outer skin turned out. I got the knack of the bending brake, and got the curve on my first attempt. The piece almost snapped into place.


My first big disappointment was having to replace the windshield frame. Just couldn't see a way to repair all the rust inside.

Next is the tub. I really don't want to know what's under there.....

 

Good start on the project...! Just out of curiosity; what was the relocation to Centralia for? (I'm from Woodinville, WA., parents live in Anacortes)

 

Well, we are from Centralia, WA originally. We were only on the east coast while I chased big bucks as a contractor. We were there for about two years. Virginia mostly. It was fun, and we will probably end up living there some day.

 

Looks like your on the right path. The metal work looks fine, the grease on the other hand might come back to haunt you when you paint it.

 

Looking really Good!!, You should be able to tackle anything else that shows it's ugly head. Keep the pictures coming. monkeysmonkeys

Jay

 

:iagree:
That stuff you put between the panels is called 3M weld through primer. Kind of expensive and the tip likes to clog, unless you shake it for a minute before use. But that can will go along way. Good stuff.

 

Started on the tub this weekend. I wish I had a picture of my son standing IN the tub while he winched it off the frame. I was too busy biting my nails.

First thing was to remove the old "new" floorboards the PO had installed. Outside of the 4 gallons of Bondo he put down to smooth and seal the floor, he didn't do to bad a job.


Next, it was time to see just how bad it was. Originally, I planned on just replacing the floorboards under my feet, but as you can see, the damage extended clear to the center hump and back to under the roll bar mount. In fact, I'm going to have to replace the mount itself. The only explanation I can come up with for this much rust on a '80 vehicle is salt. Even thick structural material is eaten away.


Now, the tricky part, I think, is going to be rebuilding the connection between the floorboards and the sides. I "thought" the outer skin of the Jeep was fine, but one hit with a hammer showed that it is rusted through and covered with 1/4" of bondo. <sigh> Anyone know a cheap place to buy a fiberglass tub


And of course, the frame has to be rebuilt, as well. The body mounts just pulled out, and a large section next to the busted muffler is just missing.


Me covered in dust and grime.


My final work for the weekend was removing the cross brace to see if the entire floor would have to be replaced, or just parts of it. This brace is in pretty good shape, so it will be treated and used as a form for the new floorboards. I think I will be able to salvage the center hump, but that's about it. My original philosophy still holds: If I can reach ALL sides of a piece, and treat it for rust, then it's saved. Otherwise, it gets replaced. Of course, that assumes there is something TO save...

 

All along, I assumed that the outer skin of the tub was solid and straight. heck, it LOOKED good. But, alas, it is not to be so. As it turns out, that nice straight side is in reality full of holes, patches, and bondo.



NOW the floorboard has holes!

 

First New Metal!!!!

A historic moment! I put the first piece of new metal on the tub. I probably could have waited, but sometimes, you need a reminder that the project IS going in the right direction!


New floor support on the passenger side. I was amazed at how well this turned out. And so fast! I don't think I spent 20 minutes on this piece from measurements to grinding.


So, it's Saturday AM. Lets see if I can get the passenger side done this weekend, shall we?

 

I'll admit it: I chickened out. I just didn't think I could recreate the side of the hump, so I welded the original piece back in. This meant for some very tricky butt welds on really thin metal, but it went pretty good. The result (as you can see) is a bit of a patchwork quilt of metal, but I still think it's for the best.


Next, I pulled all the hat channel off the back in order to see just how bad the deck was underneath. No surprise, here: It's bad. I'm not sure what to do with this: I don't want to buy a bead roller, and I'm not sure I want to have the rear deck be without them. I may try to salvage the deck for now, and come back to it next winter. It's something I think I can do without pulling the tub.

 

Well, a business trip to Vermont took me away from the project for a couple weeks, and then I had to wait for the metal I needed, but, FINALLY, I'm getting back to the Jeep deconstruction. The best thing was a shopping trip paid for by my wife. She saw me coughing up black crud and noticed my facial sunburn (I was using converted goggles), and immediately put me in the car. I got one of those really cool auto darkening welding helmets and a decent mask. I wish I had sprung for the $50 helmet before. That thing is amazing. No more using one hand to hold the goggles in place.

Anyway, the first thing I did when I got back was to create the new floor pan for the passenger side. I was concerned about the strength of the 20 gauge stuff, so I switched to 18. MUCH better. I can use this stuff for the rear deck as well.


Then, I cut out the lower side panel in order to make a template. I'm upset about having to work on the cosmetic part of the body, but it shouldn't be that hard to reproduce.


Another good thing that came out of the shopping trip was a long talk with the paint guy. He gave me a lot of great tips on rust treatment and painting over it. I got a quart of rust converter for only $11 and it works great. I also got a new paint gun so that I can devote one to primer only. The spray cans were killing my wallet.

With any luck, I can have the passenger side done tonight so that I can start on the drivers side. I need to mount it on some sawhorses, though. The business of flipping it from side to side is too hard on the material.

 

Pretty good evening in the shop. The first thing was to create a new side support to replace the one that had completely rusted away. I didn't get the angles just right, since I didn't have an original to work with. But hey, it's a Jeep. Close enough works for me.


Next step was to build and test fit the floor pan. It was pretty close, but I didn't get the center ridge just right and had to do some hammer work. I'll have to smooth it out on the plannishing hammer before I tack it in. I'm just thrilled to see the thing in there. I was beginning to think it wouldn't happen. I chickened out and didn't get a bead roller. After feeling how strong the metal is without them, I think I'll be ok. I'll put a drain plug after it's on the rig and I know where the low spot is.


Next was the replacement for the lower side. I still need to replace some metal higher up behind the door, but I wanted this in place first so I didn't get "lost" with the contours of the edge. This piece turned out ok. It was within 1/16th of an inch for length, but I couldn't duplicate the rounded edge as nicely as I would have liked.


Another shot:


View from the inside: I decided to hold off on the welding until I have the tub on some sawhorses. I think I can get a better angle for welding that way. I'm worried about making sure the side panel lines up and everything.

 

Wow. really nice sheet metal work. I've got those same HF clamping vice grips and think they're prolly the handiest sheet metal tool I own.
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Thanks! I love HF. I don't use most of my tools enough to justify buying "nice" ones, and at HF, I can get a variety so I can see what I really use.

On the one hand, the table saw I got there was the best I could find - at ANY price. On the other, I have several tools I got there that were so poor quality, they didn't work a week.

 

I got the tub on sawhorses, hopefully in a position where it's sitting straight. Then I started welding in the floor pan. Some of the pieces I made weren't quite right when it came to crunch time, but a little judicial hammering (with a 32 oz hammer) made things right. R)


Another pic of the bracket. What the heck, the camera's digital, and more is better, right?


Here are some pics of the pan being welded in. I'm paranoid about leaving little pockets where rust can come back, so I weld everything on both sides, top and bottom.


And more:


And still more:
http://www.nwcpro.com/files/images/dscn1972.jpg

And then the bad news: I knew I had some rust higher up on the side panel, but when I went to remove the 1/2" of Bondo, It kept going, and going, and.... By the time I was done, I discovered that the entire side panel is rusted out from the firewall, around the back, and up to the firewall on the other side. I joked that when I was done, on;y 30% of the original metal would be left. I've now altered that estimate to maybe 10%. I'm not sure, but I think the only original metal left will be the firewall.


DETAILS of the bad news:


Luckily, I'm confidant in my sheet metal skills that this didn't bother me that much. I have all the tools, so we're just talking another $50 in metal. Or maybe the pain center in my brain has deadened.

Somehow, I don't think I'm going to be back in the Jeep by April, which was my original goal. I guess maybe April, 2010?

 

Didn't get a lot done tonight, since I had to do a bunch of housework. I took a deep breath and dove right in on the rusted out panel. My biggest concern is keeping the Jeep fundamentally straight while I replace all this metal. I'm terrified that I'm going to bolt the tub back on and have a huge wrinkle develop in the sides or something. I did my best to keep the tub supported evenly, but....
Any advice on this subject is appreciated.

First step was to cut out the rusted area and separate the pieces so I had room to work.



Next, I cut off and replaced the lip on the fender well that was almost completely missing.


At first I was terrified when I noticed that the curve didn't match up with the rear panel. Then I realized that the rear panel was falling off! The PO had simply filled the gap with - you guessed it! - more Bondo.


Tomorrow, I'm hoping to have the fender back in one piece. Then I can join up the new side panel sections and move on to the other side. I'm putting off doing any work on the underside until I flip the tub again. I can weld upside down just fine, but I hate the smell of burning hair

 

Well, I haven't gotten much done in the last week (had to build a greenhouse), but I did manage to get all the various pieces and parts for the passenger side welded in. On the one hand, I was happy that when all was said and done the Jeep seems to retain it's original shape, and all the lines seem to add up.


On the other hand, I was very disappointed in how some of the patches turned out. I don't seem to do very well at making the patch as seamless as I would like. And I ended up with a big heat warp in the large panel right behind the door. Oh well, I suppose a little Bondo isn't the WORST that could happen.

 

Looks great. Keep it up. I read somewhere that you have to weld in different spots to keep the heat down to prevent warping. What are your plans for paint?

 

X2 The only way I have stopped warping is to cool each weld with water and a rag. When I started, I had planned on using lead for all welded seams. It was a nice thought, but I soon learned getting the panel hot enough to take lead caused warping. Leading is an art, one which I haven't done very good at. So I too have decided to cover the weld seams using icing bondo. Keeping it as thin as possible is working out nicely for me.

Looks good

Jay

 

Oh, I SO wanted to use lead! But like you, I found that it just wasn't practical given my skillset.
I did spot weld all the way around, but when I did the final weld - warp city. I'm going to put a slice in the middle and redo it. I just don't want that much filler in it. If I had a shrinking disk, that would work, but I don't, so it's cut and weld time. One thing I've learned: If you have a good MIG, and a steady hand, butt joints work better for me than lapping the metal. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but the butt joints just turn out better.

My plans for paint are good old ACE anti-rust enamel. After pricing auto paint (OMG, OMG, OMG!!!), THAT decision was made quickly. And they can custom mix the stuff. Although "Safety Red" is the current front-runner. I like the looks of a thick coat of enamel better, anyway. I think auto paint would look too "fancy" on an old Jeep.