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Flanged Dana 60 build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by nickmil, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Feb 13, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Here's the first installment of a 5 lug Dana 60 with 35 spline axles for the CJ-6. Here's a pic of the housing I'm starting with out of a '72 Jeep pu, and one showing the difference between a 30 spline axle shaft and the 35 spline shaft. Quite a bit beefier. I'm getting ready to press the long side tube from the housing. Then need to shorten it, press it back together, and weld it up. Easy!R) Then I need to have the long shaft shortened to match the short side. I've figured out that by making the long side the same length as the short side the flange to flange width will come in at just about 58 1/2" which is the same Scout 2 width I have in the '6 now. It's getting disc brakes and 5:38 gears. I'm not sure which locker, if I can afford it an ARB will go in. It'll take a while to gather the gears, locker, etc. so this may take a while. I'll get more pics as I progress.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  2. Feb 13, 2008
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member 2022 Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
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    so you'll end up w/ a centered diff?....what motor/trans/tc you running?
    looking forward to reading more as you go:beer:
    Jim S.
     
  3. Feb 15, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Yeah, a centerd diff is what I'm after. I'm running a '93 TBI 350 with an early GM NV-4500 with the 6.34-1 first gear and a Jeep Dana 300 transfer case. I've got a Scout 2 rear 44 in there now that is completely useable but I'm working towards the future as I'm running 5.38 gears and 36" tires.....
    I'll definitely be taking pics as I go and will continue to update as I make progress. Nickmil
     
  4. Feb 27, 2008
    Ghetto Fab.

    Ghetto Fab. Member

    Atascadero, Ca.
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    Sweet! If you can get some pics of pressing the tubes in and out that would be sick!R)

    Out of curiosity, whats the tube thickness on the rears? I've allways wondered if the rears were thinner tubing than fronts like they do on the D44s.

    Kevo
     
  5. Feb 27, 2008
    rockcrawler

    rockcrawler New Member

    evans,ga
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    what are you going to use to press those tubes out
     
  6. Feb 27, 2008
    Hawkes

    Hawkes Member

    Nova scotia
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    I think I'm understanding what you have there. A rear offset Waggy D60, cut to have equal sides. Couldn't you use 2 short side axles instead of having one made? I may be getting ahead of your post, but how do you get 5 lugs? Aren't the 60's all 8 lug?
     
  7. Feb 28, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The tube diameter is 2 3/4" just like a flanged 44. Not sure on the tube thickness but will measure when I get a chance. I'll try and get some pics as I'm pressing it apart.
     
  8. Feb 28, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    60 ton press designed for pressing apart axle housing. I should have some pics I can post when I press it apart.
     
  9. Feb 28, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Not an offset waggy. A 60 was never used in a wagoneer. It's a '72 J-3000 or 4000 rear truck axle. They have an offset to them even though it had a centered transfer case in the truck. There were a few years that used a semi-float, 5 lug, 35 splined dana 60. That's what this is.
    I could use two short axles to do this but it's hard to find shafts for this axle and is much cheaper just to have my long side cut down to match the short side. Especially considering I live about a 10-15 minute drive from Dutchman Motorsports:). Nickmil
     
  10. Feb 28, 2008
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
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    More of a question really than anything else, but are you gonna be regearing the tcase? I ask that because from what I've seen if you regear the tcase and have a 6.34-1 first gear in the tranny, I don't think I would go that low on the axles. I doubt you would have much trouble especially with 36's, but from what I've seen on the 60 fronts (haven't dealt with any 60 rears) the R&P gets weaker with gears that low in it. I personally would try to stick around the 4.56-maybe 5.13 range and regear the tcase.

    Just giving you something to think about though, cause I know you know more about that end of it than I do from some of the work you've done.
     
  11. Feb 28, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Nope. No plans to re-gear the transfer case at this time.Keeping the 2.62-1 low range. With the 5.38's, the 36" tires, the low range and the 6.34-1 first that gives me just under a 90-1 crawl ratio and can still comfortably cruise down the highway at 65-70 mph with the small block. There's two thoughts on the pinion size. One is as it gets smaller it gets weaker. True to a point, especially on a real small diff like a 25 or 27 it can be an issue. The second thought, which I subscribe too is the mechanical advantage (less load on the gears) due to the lower gear ratio off sets the strength issue. I've seen lots of times where the load on the gears would break a set of 3.50 gears and then bump down to 4.56 and no longer any gear issues. The strength issue is one of the reasons I decided on going with the 60 though. I currently have a Scout 2 Dana 44 with 5.38 gears, ARB, Warn full float kit, and disc brakes under it now. The axle strength will be about the same between the alloy 30 spline shafts and the stock 35 spline shafts so no real gain there, but I will be gaining strength in the ring and pinion and diff gears and that's what I'm after. Plus I may tow my CJ-5 with this thing so I want the longevity of the larger bearings and gears. The original reason I went with 5.38's is I had one good used set and an NOS set of Spicer's laying around, plus my other Jeeps run 5.38's so having an extra set laying around was easy. I could've gone 4.56 or 4.88 but I'd have had to buy new gears and at that time money was an issue plus 5.38's were everywhere. Plus I wanted the lower gearing. With the overdrive transmission is wasn't an issue for me.
    Another reason I don't want to re-gear the transfer case is I run sand quite a bit and a 4-1 gear set in the transfer case is just too low a lot of the time. I kind of get to have my cake and eat it too. Plus if I have issues with the gears (break one, etc), stock 300 gears are everywhere pretty cheap vs. an aftermarket gear that's expensive. Very good points and questions though. I'll never go above a 37" tire on this thing so the 5.38's will work fine for me. I'm pretty gentle on the skinny pedal too....... Nickmil
     
  12. Feb 28, 2008
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
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    Actually, the biggest reason for asking if you were gonna regear the tcase and what I was kinda trying to get to in a round about way was what you mentioned toward the end of your post.......

    I didn't want to come out and say it, because in offroading there are so many people out there who will argue with you if you try to say you've geared something "too low", but it's something I've seen from the regeared 300's running anything lower than 4.88's, and that's with a TH350, so it would only be worse with that low of a first gear. With 36's or 38's I'm sure the gears will hold up fine, wasn't really basing it on the size of them for the most part, I was basing it on how many 60's I've seen eat R&P's like candy when they run gears past the 5.13's. Some have great luck with them, but as far as the drivetrain stess the lower axle gears usually help from the pinion out, meaning driveshafts, tcases, etc., so with them all of the other stuff is built to hold up under just about anything, it makes that pinion the weakest point.

    Trying to get an overall idea of what all you're doing to it, that's why I said it was more of a question than anything else, so I can say with stock tcase gears it sounds like you'll have a great setup.
     
  13. Feb 28, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I hear you. Sand and mud running a lot of time you need tire speed and ultra low gears just don't get you there, you gotta kind of find a balance with your gearing. I can always go lower in the transfer case if I want to, but really don't think with the crawl ratio I have now it'll be necessary for the kind of wheeling in this area. I've driven Jeeps in Moab with a higher crawl ratio than that (around 68-1) with no problems. If I have issues with the diff gears I can alway go to 4.56 or 4.88 too. I kind of consider 5.13's an orphan gear set. If I have an issue they are not as readily available.
     
  14. Feb 28, 2008
    Hawkes

    Hawkes Member

    Nova scotia
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    I realized later that I said Wagoneer instead of J truck. I know where there is one but it is 8 lug.
     
  15. Feb 28, 2008
    MCSCOTT

    MCSCOTT Member

    Columbia, Tn
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    5.13's are fairly common around here, because most folks around here run the 14 bolt rear and the 60 front, and up until recently the 5.13's were as low as you could go with the 14 bolt. Another issue though with the 5.13 front gears is that you have to run a spacer if you're using your stock carrier, so with that in mind it makes sense that the 5.13's wouldn't be easy to find for a 60 rear.

    Being part of a club, and being part of building rigs for members of that club, has given me the opportunity to experiment with different things at everyone else's expense, so the "too low" gear thing is something that we just found out on one that we swapped a 205 out for a built 300. The guy originally built it with 5.13's and the 205, with a TH350, and I've actually seen places where the rig wouldn't spin the tires at all, even with a good 350 crate engine. Now, with the 4-1 300 tcase in it, it will spin the crap outta the tires, but in several situations it's just not getting the wheelspeed and forward momentum like he needs. On the other side of the fence is kinda the same setup, with the 4-1 and 4.11's. This works great on the trails, but in situations like Tellico where you have to run up the road from the cabins, the 4.11's kill it. His 2wh and 2wh are basically wasted. I figure I'm gonna try for 4.56 or 4.88's and see how they do on mine. Keep in mind those are all with 44's though.

    Sorry, I just realized I was rambling again:oops:...........now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
     
  16. Mar 11, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Here are a couple of pics pressing the tube from the housing. Next step is to machine the tube and press it back in. The tube has to be machined to fit the casting. The portion that was cut off from the tube had about a .003" interference fit. The remaining tube is about
    .030" larger than the hole in the casting. Too much. Could split the carrier like a melon. Seen it happen....
    One pic is of the press with the housing in it with the bar and puck just starting to push the tube out. I usually chain the housings down but this one came out real easy. That's a 60 ton air over hydraulic set up to press tubes out. Another shot shows the tube as it's coming out. You can see through the hole where the weld was the puck and rod used to push the tube. The last pic shows the housing with the tube pressed out being supported by the press rod. We've had ones so tight that it actually bowed the main beam of the press.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  17. Mar 11, 2008
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member 2022 Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
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    very cool Nick...please keep the dialog and pics coming.....it'd be nice to come spend a weeks vacation working with you in your shop :)....I'll buy:beer::beer: R)
    Jim S.
     
  18. Mar 12, 2008
    Ghetto Fab.

    Ghetto Fab. Member

    Atascadero, Ca.
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    Very cool! Do you guys torch the rossette welds out?
     
  19. Mar 13, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Normally we carbon arc them out but this one I torched out to save money because I knew that portion of the tube was getting cut off. We have a welding shop do the carbon arcing because of the time and mess. We have them do anywhere from 5 to 15 housings at a time to save money. On the fronts if you are going to reuse the tube at stock length you have to carbon arc them to keep from going all the way through the tube because of the machining on the inside of the tube for the axle seal. The tube should be getting machined next week hopefully. As soon as it does then more pics will be forthcoming as progress is made. I did get an ARB for it at the swap meet. Just have to get gears, rebuild kit, and the long shaft cut down. Hopefully next week on the shaft as well....
    Next week is finals week here so time is at a premium. Hoping to work on it over Spring Break. Nickmil
     
  20. Apr 25, 2008
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Well, been a while and it's been crazy around here but got some more done. The housing is pressed together and welded. Used the press with a line up bar. We have a fixture that goes in the carrier bearing saddles to keep from distorting the center section. If you think they don't distort, boy do I have an eye opener for you. The fixture just barely slides down in the saddles. Maybe 1 thousandths to 1/2 a thousandths clearance. When I was pressing the tube back in I stopped for a minute and tried to move the fixture. NO WAY would it budge. Tells me the housing can crush when the tubes are pressed in. Anyway, the housing is pretty much done. I acquired a Riddler heavy duty cover. Brand new product from Riddler Mfg. VERY beefy. I got the axle back from Dutchman shortened and re-splined. Yesterday I picked up the gears and install kit. I've got the new seals for the ARB and ready to install. I've got the axle bearings ready to press on the axles, but having trouble getting the outer axle seals.... Still working on that. This is getting disc brakes by the way but don't have pics of that yet. Here are a couple of pics up to this point. I still need to figure out where to put the vent and drill and tap the hole and also for the air line for the ARB. Plan on that this weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
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