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yet another steering problem

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by stark, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. Sep 7, 2005
    stark

    stark New Member

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    I have scanned through this forum, as well as others, and have seen many threads related to steering problems encountered with the Ross manual steering set-up. However, I have tried almost every suggested fix and my 69 CJ5 still produces a hellacious wheel wobble almost everytime I hit a bump. By wobble I mean almost flipping over, out of control wheel deflection of what looks to be 6-8"s (when I am brave enought to stick my head out and look). It wobbled so bad right after I did most of the work on it that it snapped the bell crank in half (at 50 mph, I lived through that one). I have replaced the bell crank, the tie rod ends, the steering knuckle shims and bushings. Because I put 2.5 " lifted springs on it, I flipped the tie rod ends to the top of the steering knuckles to alleviate the angle. I thought this would help, it did not. I have ordered a steering stabilizer, but I am wondering if that will only dampen the problem not fix it. I guess my question is this "is there anyone out there who has lifted an old CJ and experienced the same problem, and if so, what was the fix?" Any pointers would be appreciated.
     
  2. Sep 7, 2005
    Hawk62cj5

    Hawk62cj5 Captain of OldSchool

    Brodnax Va.
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    Sounds like you have covered most of your bases , so Im guessing one of 2 things . Either your bearings are bad in your knucles or your ross box is gone or lose. I would jack the front off the ground and check them knuckles first . HTH
     
  3. Sep 7, 2005
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Steering geometry? Can't change the camber, but you can change the toe-in and caster. Toe-in change in repsonse to bumps is the main reason for using a 1-piece tie rod on a Ross setup. The more you lift, the worse that gets, or so I've heard. You also need to pay atterntion to the caster, which will be fine at standard ride height but will change with lift. Adjust that with tapered shims.
     
  4. Sep 7, 2005
    cody67

    cody67 New Member

    Roswell NM
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    I am probably wrong here but, I had a new Ford truck only a month old that would shake the devil out of me when I would hit a bump. It didnt do it every time but when it did it was totally out of controll. Turned out that it was the left front tire. It was not just out of ballance, but out of round. Changed that tire and never had another problem. You would think it would shake all the time but it only did it at highway speed after hitting a bump and would not stop shaking until I slowed to about 10 mph.
     
  5. Sep 7, 2005
    stark

    stark New Member

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    Thanks for the responses! One thing that occured to me was that I had also recently aquired a set of old, slightly beat up, aluminum wheels. They were balanced when the tires went on, but I will switch them around and see what happens. I am going after it again today, and if I can solve the problem I will post it here so that it may be of some benifit to others.
     
  6. Sep 7, 2005
    speedbuggy

    speedbuggy Looking for a Jeep now

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    Sounds like the knuckles to me. Does it happens ONLY when you hit a bump, or do you experience it at 40 - 45 mph? I rebuilt the knuckles in mine and replaced all of the bearings and it cured it ;)
     
  7. Sep 7, 2005
    stark

    stark New Member

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    It will drive fine at any speed until I hit a bump and then wham, I have to drop it down to 10mph or so. Sometimes if I feel it coming on I can turn the wheel and it will come out of it without doing the full blown wobble. The funny thing is that when I bought the jeep the passenger side knuckle had 4" of lateral play and the bell crank was cracked half through and I never had a wobble. I had knuckle re-built and replaced the crank. Let me ask you this; is it common to be able to move the steering wheel about 5-6" either way without moving the wheels?
     
  8. Sep 7, 2005
    speedbuggy

    speedbuggy Looking for a Jeep now

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    No, it is not. Mine is responsive, but I have a saginaw conversion as well. Get someone to turn the wheel for you while you look at the steering components. See what is / isn't moving and go from there.
     
  9. Sep 7, 2005
    Ppilotmike

    Ppilotmike old JEEPer

    Oscoda Mi
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    I didn't see what size tire and wheel combo you have, I had the same problem with my Jeep when I had the 33x 12.50's when I removed my steering stabilizer to see if that was effecting the difficulty I had steering the Jeep it would speed wooble like it was going to fly apart everytime I hit a bump. When I put my new springs, 1" lift and 31 10.50's I did not need the stabilizer any more. My conclusion was the stock steering was just not enginnerd to handle the bigger, heaver tire and wheel combo. YMMV. Mike
     
  10. Sep 7, 2005
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    5-6" is waaay too much play in the steering. If you have a friend turn the steerign wheel back and forth while you inspect everything I think you'll probably see alot of slop in the ross box, and possibly also the drag link. It doesn't take too much play to make things interesting in a big way!
     
  11. Sep 7, 2005
    stark

    stark New Member

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    33x9.5 BF Goodrich Mud Terrains on 8.5" wheels. The tires came with the jeep. I had been told that I would not like the Ross steering compared to saginaw, but i actually did not find the Ross setup to be that bad in terms of how much muscle is needed to turn the vehicle. That is why i went ahead and replaced the bell crank when it snapped rather than switching over to a saginaw. I am going to cut out of work early and check out everything and I will report the results tommorrow. Thanks for all the input!
     
  12. Sep 8, 2005
    AKCJ

    AKCJ Active Member

    Fairbanks, Alaska
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    Isn't this the dreaded death wobble? I had it happen 4 times this summer. Was able to find some play in the tie rod ends and the steering link ends (box to pass side). There was quite a bit of play but could only see it by using a prybar. Changed all four ends and it seemed to help. I've got power saganaw conversion.

    I was able to find some good info by googling "death wobble".
     
  13. Sep 9, 2005
    66cj5

    66cj5 Jeep with no name

    NorthWest Indiana
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    sounds like the shims are missing from the kingpins.
     
  14. Sep 11, 2005
    bwcowboy

    bwcowboy Unoriginal A1

    Stillwater, Oklahoma
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    My question is somewhat related to this topic. Has anyone converted their steering over to a one piece draglink and a crossover link running from the original bellcrank? I am also experencing the same wobble (not as severe) as the original poster. I am running 31x10.5x15 tires on a 58 A1.
     
  15. Sep 11, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Try a search for Jeepster tie rod. It's been discussed before I know. Beyond that I've not done it so I don't know much about it.
     
  16. Sep 11, 2005
    bwcowboy

    bwcowboy Unoriginal A1

    Stillwater, Oklahoma
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    Thanks, did not know if I could use a stock center tie rod connected to the beel crank out on one end and then connect a drag link from there. The play that I get is from the center tie rods rotating up and down letting the toe in change while driving.
     
  17. Sep 11, 2005
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Mike B. has some discussion on his site. http://www.boyink.com/supersizedutch_comments/30_0_9_0_C/ As I recall, the other possibility is a knuckle from an early Wagoneer, which has two holes on the passenger side. You then connect the two knuckles with a one-piec tie rod,and use the original passenger side tie rod end to connect the bell crank to the knuckle.
     
  18. Sep 12, 2005
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    If you have insufficient toe-in you can get the Death Wobble. Mine was horrible. I had an alignment and that cured it.
     
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