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198 Starter Woes, (was: Eugene Update in OT)

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by sparky, Aug 5, 2005.

Page 3 of 4
  1. Aug 6, 2005
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    As I recall, it's not a Bendix gear per se, it's more properly called a pinion gear. A Bendix is used on something like the F4 starter which both extends the gear and allows the flywheel to overrun the starter gear. The pinion gear only provides overrun, and is pushed into the flywheel by the starter solenoid.

    The starter uses bushings to hold the armature, so there is some resistance. There's also some resistance from the brushes. It's kind of hard to diagnose these with a DVM becasuse the resistances through the field and armature are fairly low. It's more the back EMF that limits the current draw, rather than the passive resistance.

    If you want to, I'd suggest you take it apart and clean it. Cleaning might be enough. I don't have any good pictures of Delco starters, but the only tricky part should be unhooking the brush springs and removing/replacing the brushes. The most common service part is the brushes. Once you have the armature out, check for shorts between the amature shaft or laminations and each pole of the commutator. If you find a short, put it back together and wait for your rebuilt unit. Also test the field frame (the body of the starter) for shorts between the field coils and the frame. Make sure the brushes and their leads are not touching the frame.

    Your FSM should have some info on starter testing and rebuild.
     
    timgr, Aug 6, 2005
    #41
  2. Aug 6, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Tim,
    That just shows my experience with GM starters. :oops:

    I'm more used to the Willys starters.

    I did take it apart and check it out. I saw the bushings. Brushes don't look so hot. I might be able to get new ones but probably can get a rebuilt unit as fast as new brushes.

    The field lead doesn't look so good. I'm not sure it is in the best shape. Not sure how to describe it other than it didn't look so good when I removed the starter.

    I forgot I have a FSM that would cover this starter.
     
    sparky, Aug 6, 2005
    #42
  3. Aug 7, 2005
    Ledge

    Ledge Member

    Old Town, Maine
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    May 5, 2004
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    Re: Eugene Update

    I assume everyone knows not to run a winch off from the side terminals of an Optima, right? The bonding straps that run from the side terminals won't handle the long term load and eventually melt down.
     
    Ledge, Aug 7, 2005
    #43
  4. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Re: Eugene Update

    OBA hardly does not = Winch IMO.

    But yes, I figured that went without saying. Perhaps there are enough new folks though that's a good thing to remind people of.
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #44
  5. Aug 7, 2005
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I know that topic of side terminals and winch was discussed a while back. Definitely good to bring up a reminder though!
     
    Glenn, Aug 7, 2005
    #45
  6. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I thought the OBA was pretty slick. When my new air compressor gets here, thanks Linda!, I'll probably work up some sort of wiring harness on both Jeeps using the side terminals and plugs for easy use.
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #46
  7. Aug 7, 2005
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    Draws 30 AMPS.......
     
    blevisay, Aug 7, 2005
    #47
  8. Aug 7, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    I've had the OBA plumbed to the side terminals in Dutch for years...no issues.
     
    Boyink, Aug 7, 2005
    #48
  9. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I know it draws 30 Amps, how much does a GM using the side terminals draw to start and run? :shock:
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #49
  10. Aug 7, 2005
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    I didnt say it woulnt work.just threw that out......side terminals stink IMO
     
    blevisay, Aug 7, 2005
    #50
  11. Aug 7, 2005
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Couple hunnerd.....
     
    Patrick, Aug 7, 2005
    #51
  12. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    I dislike side terminals for starting but for drawing 30 amps, if you keep 'em clean, seems like a good use to me. YMMV.
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #52
  13. Aug 7, 2005
    Ledge

    Ledge Member

    Old Town, Maine
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    They'll handle 30 amps all day long. They'll handle 200 amps for starting an engine. How long do you crank your rig over generally? Not more than a few seconds to a time, unless you are having starting problems. It's the high load of the winch motor, combined with the long duty cycle of a pull that causes the melt down.
     
    Ledge, Aug 7, 2005
    #53
  14. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Agreed.
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #54
  15. Aug 7, 2005
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Sparky, Ya must have cursed me or something. :D

    I replaced the battery cables on Achilles today because one of them was not getting a good connection for starting...



    Broke the darn solinoid on my new starter! Sounds like the same thing you did. :rofl:
    Luckily I have a lifetime warantee on it so I just have to find the reciept 8)
     
    termin8ed, Aug 7, 2005
    #55
  16. Aug 7, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Ahem, mine was already perforated, I just tore along the lines. R)
     
    sparky, Aug 7, 2005
    #56
  17. Aug 8, 2005
    vanguard

    vanguard

    Iity?
     
    vanguard, Aug 8, 2005
    #57
  18. Aug 8, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Nope, now that you mention it I think I may hafta call, they were supposed to call me. :rofl:
     
    sparky, Aug 8, 2005
    #58
  19. Aug 8, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    On the phone now. Got 1 price so far.

    Getting a 2cnd opinion. :D
     
    sparky, Aug 8, 2005
    #59
  20. Aug 8, 2005
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    NAPA doesn't have one?

    That really surprises me that NAPA can't get one.
     
    sparky, Aug 8, 2005
    #60
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