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New EFI Option - Looks Like 3 Good Players Now

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Warloch, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Nov 14, 2022
    SoCalCamper

    SoCalCamper New Member

    So California
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Hey group, much needed help here. Just installed the Holley Sniper 4brl 4150 on my Dauntless 225 odd-fire. It has an 4brl Offy intake, with a 1” open spacer (with a needed port to my transmission modulator), and a HEI Distributor. As expected, the RPM’s are bouncing all over the place, idling high and stalls when it gets to low (or backfires if I keep thumping the throttle. I’m about to order/install some new MSD suppression plug wires and plugs, it’s time, and looking for any other thoughts or suggestions. It’s rough right now…when I can keep it running. Crank sensor thoughts? Never installed one before and not sure how to begin. Please help!
     
    Norcal69 likes this.
  2. Nov 14, 2022
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
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  3. Nov 14, 2022
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    276
    The crank sensor was one of the easiest parts of my sniper install (still in progress due to having to replace in-tank pump) even though I thought it would be hardest. I was able to drive it shortly and got it up to temp and the rpms were steady, but be aware it has only been up to temp for maybe 45 minutes at this point so not really tested.
    I used Part # 554-124 Holley sensor.
    On the holes for the crank I installed 3 evenly spaced 7/16" x 1" socket head bolts (so I didn't have to weld onto the bolt like NorCal did on this forum)
    Then cut and tapped a piece of metal that bolted on top of fuel pump block off plate and came straight down.

    https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/09/25/67FE1D97-F643-479A-8202-382FC50C2A10.jpg


    helpful threads and wiring by truckee4x4.
    Tips For Starting Up A Rebuilt Engine With Sniper Efi | Page 8 | ECJ5 (earlycj5.com)
    http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/norcal69s-common-sense-build.110768/page-39>
     
  4. Nov 14, 2022
    SoCalCamper

    SoCalCamper New Member

    So California
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you Cayenne, that sensor part number and bolt size are very helpful. I’ll be ordering that sensor tonight. Curious, do you have any other pics from different angles? Trying to figure out how to make the mounting plate and where to install so it lines up perfectly with the three head bolts (looks like they’re touching the sensor or is that a tiny gap?). I’m a visual learner for sure. Also, if you have a HEI Distributor, did you select “coil” or “CD box” in the Sniper set up now that you have a crank sensor and what’d you do with their yellow ignition wire that’s supposed to go to tach out? Thanks again. This is definitely giving my hope!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
  5. Nov 14, 2022
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    276
    I don’t really have a better picture of the bracket and I only see my Jeep on the weekend so can’t get one till then. It is crude I just used some 5/16” flat stock laying around. It is mostly a rectangle that is about 2”x 5”. I used the fuel pump block off plate to drill and locate those holes then just spun the crank by hand and marked where the socket bolts got the closest. Truckee4x4 thread on staring an engine with efi has a little cad drawing of his bracket which is more elaborate than mine…if you study his thread and NorCal69 thread on his Howell efi they have lots of good pictures of theirs.
    Yes the sensor is very close, the instructions have how close it needs to get and the closer the better, so I used feeler gauges..
     
  6. Nov 16, 2022
    SoCalCamper

    SoCalCamper New Member

    So California
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    That helps a ton, thank you. Ordered the Holley sensor and picked up the head bolts/lock nuts yesterday. Hoping for the best and to get a solid RPM. Curious, did you connect the white crank sensor wire to the violet cd box wire and how’d you set up your Sniper wizard, did you select “coil” or “cd box”? Is “ignition spark” enabled or disabled? And what is your timing set at (15? 18?). Thanks man, really appreciate your help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2022
  7. Nov 28, 2022
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    276
    I finally finished my holley sniper fuel injection project. It took much longer than expected due to researching wiring, having to order and mis-order little peripheral parts and burning out my first fuel pump during test ride when filter mat fell off the pump (make sure it is pressed all the way on). I don't have much seat time on it, but it starts really quickly in the cold and sounds great. Here is the part list (most from summit) which I have uploaded with the understanding no one will total it so I can remain intentionally ignorant of my Jeep expenses. Thanks to all on this forum who took the plunge before me so I could get a head start on their trials and tribulations. I am horrible at taking pictures when working on jeep, but I will try to take some.
    • Kit -
      • Holley Sniper EFI 2GC Small Bore - Classic Gold Finish Part # 550-866 (not master kit). I read many places that external pump was loud and lost prime alot
    • Fuel line
      • Earl's Vapor Guard™ Hose Part # 752066ER
    • Fuel pump block off plate
      • MRG-1516 summit
    • Fittings
      • 90 degree fuel in - EAR-759166ERL;
      • Return line block off since pump doesn't need return - EAR-AT581406ERL - plug -6AN O-ring
    • Fuel pump (for rear 15gal tank)
      • Holley 255 LPH OE Style EFI Fuel Tank Modules Part # 12-307
        • Just the pump (since I broke mine): Walbro GSS341BX
    • Crankshaft Sensor
      • Holly Part # 554-124
      • Bracket - homemade off fuel pump block off plate
      • On the holes for the crank I installed 3 evenly spaced 7/16" x 1" socket head bolts
      • Tap for sensor - 12mm x 1.0mm (odd really fine threads)
      • "CD box" selected on holly sniper.
      • Wired to purple and green from sniper, and switched ignition.
    • Carb spacer - (to clear thermostat housing)
      • ebay from 68rrman - small 2gc 2-jet spacer phenolic Riser Insulator 1/2" Kit
    • Temp sensor fitting - (to go into port front passenger of intake) had to drill out fitting as well for holley sensor.
      • ATM-2284 - 3/8 NPT male - 1/8 NPT female - summit
    • Fuel filter -
      • summit Part # 562-1
    • Fuel filter holder - (inside passenger frame rail)
      • AEI-12701 summit
    • Delay relay -- (to bridge ignition switch dead spot between run and start positions that would cause sniper re-boot)
      • vendor Del City: Bu508TD
        • Pin 86: To your ignition switch (12 volts)
        • Pin 85: To Ground
        • Pin 30: To Battery
        • Pin 87: To Sniper 12-Volt Switched (Pink Wire) -- this wire goes to sniper relay on its Pin 86
        • Delay is at 2sec
    • Clamps
      • Earl's Vapor Guard™ Hose Clamp Part # 750006ERL
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
    Norcal69, RedWing, Jw60 and 7 others like this.
  8. Dec 3, 2022
    SoCalCamper

    SoCalCamper New Member

    So California
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    The Holley Sniper EFI is finally running and purring on the ole’ Dauntless 225 odd-fire. Took a lot of time and fabricating, but got it worked out thanks to the awesome help from y’all and the various online forum members. A custom crank sensor bracket and ECU shield made a ton of difference along with…new plugs, MSD low-EFI/RFI resistant spark plug wires, new fuel lines and fuel tank work for 3/8 lines inside and out, LOTS of new heat shrink wiring and PO fixes, conductive tape and looming galore…and some cleanup and high-temp engine bay paint just for kicks. Again, THANK YOU for all of your help and support along the way, couldn’t have figured this out otherwise. Holley Tech Support…”sorry, we don’t support the Dauntless Odd-Fire.” Okay, I know some guys who do. After each day of tinkering and wrenching, some whiskey and internet research was on tap. Again, much appreciation for y’all. Cheers
     
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  9. Dec 26, 2022
    vtxtasy

    vtxtasy oldbee 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Tucson, AZ
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    Feb 5, 2006
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    1,430
    I posted this in a different thread as is somewhat fuel injection related.

    Performance Distributors said to put the #1 plug wire where the #5 post is. I measured the contacts in the cap with a compass and the distance is within a few thousands.
    Not much at all for a spark to jump. I suppose one could start at #3 also. The most important part would be in how you dropped the distributor on #1 post you chose. That
    being said...I put my #1 just left of the power input. Vacuum advance points at power steering pump. I don't know. Seems like if it works, it works. The points distributor
    seems a little more wonky as the spark comes of each end of the odd rotor contact with a smaller cap and gaps between contacts. Just passing on information and the
    hair I pulled out...lol.
    Tried a Hayes Stinger multi-spark module with a modified Oddfire distributor once. It had a pickup coil and pole piece from an HEI. The problem was the
    spark duration was too long for the Oddfire configured cap and rotor...spark everywhere. Hayes was making clutches at the time and joined Centerforce Clutches in
    Prescott AZ. This was before PerTronixs and he competed with MSD. The Stinger outperformed the MSD back in the 80's. MSD had a multi-spark module that could be used on an
    odd-fire engine with points but discontinued it. PerTronixs now has multi-spark module that I could use that distributor with or just use the PerTonicxs kit with it. Kinda pricey though.
    The module works with the odd-fire and I believe it will output the correct signal for fuel injection without the need for a crank sensor. I have 2 functional Stinger modules. Suppose
    I could put them on the Ebay.

    If you got through this, the PerTronics Ignition Box looks capable of doing a batch-fire for fuel injection with a square wave signal. It is also select-able for the Oddfire V6,
    similar to the old MSD box. It also has many other features. That said, there can be more to go wrong. It is the PerTronixs 510 Digital. There are two PDF's for
    download on their site with several ignition configurations. Worth a look especially for anyone running the PerTronics and thinking of going to fuel injection. It also can
    be used with points or HEI.

    Just putting out options and welcome any good or bad criticism. I have thick skin except on the back of my hands...lol!
     
  10. Dec 27, 2022
    BadGoat

    BadGoat How High Can You Climb?

    Northern Virginia
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    326
    For those doing the in-tank fuel pump with a rear mounted tank, I highly recommend cutting an access door in the bed, over the sending unit. At some point you will have problems and need access to the sending unit and pump for trouble shooting/repairs. I used a stainless access panel from Tank's Inc, but have also seem some nice custom units.

    https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/...t_id=543/category_id=167/mode=prod/prd543.htm

    Mike
     
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  11. Jan 13, 2023
    Shop Gumby

    Shop Gumby New Member

    Michigan
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    Jan 13, 2023
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    44
    I may be a bit late to the party, but I'll ask just in case. Is there anyone here working on a 225 Dauntless Buick odd-fire V6 who has a home-made crank trigger mounting bracket they could offer as a loaner/prototype guinea pig piece? I work the back shop/dungeon at Howell EFI, and have been tasked with coming up with a sensor bracket that will work on these engines for efi installs. I've been through every page of this thread and have seen several interesting photos of fabbed brackets. I would just need a solid example in front of me for dimensions etc., since I don't have a 225 Buick engine here to use for mock-up purposes. The owner says there has been more interest lately for this piece and it just may be enough to invest some time and $$ to make a solid reliable part. Obviously not a high volume item, but would like to offer it with our kits, or individually, to get more Jeep projects up and on the road. If it's do-able without too much aggravation and excessive cost (the way things are these days, you never know), we'd love to add this one to our stock. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  12. Jan 13, 2023
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Yes, you can shoot me a DM
     
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  13. Jan 13, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Apr 4, 2010
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    7,110
    I don't have what you need, but I'd just like to offer a big thank you to you & your boss for taking the time to make a cool new product for our old Jeeps!
    (y)
     
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  14. Jan 13, 2023
    Shop Gumby

    Shop Gumby New Member

    Michigan
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    Jan 13, 2023
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    We try. Have to keep the old beasties on the road (or off road in this case) don't we? Looking into a few other trinkets as well, but those are still in the 'don't say anything yet' category. This is me officially not saying anything. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
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  15. Jan 19, 2023
    jeepermc

    jeepermc Active Member

    Western WA
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    May 25, 2011
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    1,188
    vtxtasy likes this.
  16. Jan 19, 2023
    Stakebed

    Stakebed Member

    Lake Co....
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    Aug 2, 2022
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    Gumby, I too would like to offer gratitude to you and Howell for being on the forum and looking after us.
    I have your kit on a '79 CJ5 w/ 304.
     
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  17. Jan 19, 2023
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    I would like to add as an aside that I bought my flashed GM computer with a new wiring harness from Howell for my 2000 GM 4.3 v6 with native FI for my Jeep. For my application the Howell products were great quality and a good value.
     
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  18. Jan 19, 2023
    Shop Gumby

    Shop Gumby New Member

    Michigan
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    Jan 13, 2023
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    44
    Thanks for the kind words. I've read up the last week or so on this specific issue, and understand the frustration some people have/had with dialing in the kits. I'm glad I was pointed to this forum since I don't get to hear or see much customer feedback. (Finally set up my laptop back in the dungeon, so hopefully that'll change) Most of that is handled up front. I can't help much with the programming/wiring aspects, I'm more on the mechanical end of things...throttle bodies, machining etc. I thought I might be sticking my neck in a noose popping up on this thread, but so far there haven't been any death threats or curses on my soul. We're just a 10 person shop with nowhere near the R&D budget of Holley or other big companies, but as issues pop up and make themselves known we do our best to sort things out. Now if I could just find a loaner homemade bracket to base a production piece on.....:whistle:
    Dan
     
  19. Jan 19, 2023
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    You will get what you need from folks here - some of us are slow because we are old :D

    There are lots of folks here willing to help design and build things so others can upgrade and still enjoy these old rigs. I helped Eric at Novak on a couple items over the years and I know others have put back into the commercial side as we are asked.
     
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  20. Jan 19, 2023
    Stakebed

    Stakebed Member

    Lake Co....
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    Aug 2, 2022
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    If you really miss those things, I'm sure some sharp tongued members can oblige.

    Can you remind me of the name of your tech man in AZ and his email addy?
    More issues yesterday.
    20230118_162737.jpg
     
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