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What Is Inside My Tire?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FinoCJ, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. Jul 12, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Put the jeep up on stands so I can spin various bearings etc while investigating a cyclic vibration or groaning sound....and I heard a weird rolling sound (its pretty round and rolls pretty freely - it could be a pebble like object, but its not 'clunky' or super flat sided) coming from inside the right rear tire. These tires were shop mounted 6-7 years ago, and I don't recall ever hearing it before - and I spin it in the shop when I do brakes etc. I also redid the rear axle 4 or so years ago and spent quite a bit of time with it. Is there anything that can come loose on the inside of the tire/wheel? I've never gotten a flat with these tires, and certainly never lost a bead. I run pretty low pressure when 4wd, but can't imagine something could get inside via the bead without experience something pretty noticeable like a flat etc.

    The wheels and tires did go to the tire shop for a balance last summer, and I guess its possible the shop could have caused this. Was wondering if a valve stem could fall inside the tire somehow? I've never lost or removed the valve stem that I know of, but maybe the shop could have lost a valve stem down inside the tire (?) and just replaced it without telling me. As I have mag wheels - they usually balance the tire by gluing flat weights to the backside of the rim as opposed to the traditional weights crimped onto the outer rim of the wheel. Would they ever put a weight inside the rim/tire - and possibly that weight has come loose? Finally, the sound makes me wondering if they maybe put some sort of internal balancing beads inside the tire - but again they would have done it without telling me. Normally, I think you would use quite a lot of beads and they would sound pretty distinct like a bunch of rolling BB's - whereas this sounds like just a couple or limited number of items. Plus, none of the other tires has the sound. But - and I am jumping down the road a bit here - if there are a few balancing beads inside the tire, that could explain the slow speed vibration and groaning that goes away as speeds increase. Although I've never used them directly, I believe it takes enough wheel spin to get the beads to find the sweet spot for balance - maybe the noise I am hearing is the out of balance tire that then comes into balance with a bit of speed?

    Anyway - I so far have not found any obvious issues with any bearings. My gut feeling is that maybe I should pull the driveshaft totally out and inspect the u-joints closely - or just replace for good measure. I am more worried its something inside the axle, but can't really figure out where its coming from. I am about to just keep driving it until it gets so bad you can't miss it...
     
  2. Jul 12, 2022
    Oldpappy

    Oldpappy A.C. Fults - Curmudgeon at large 2022 Sponsor

    East Tennessee
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    First I ever heard of "balancing beads" but there is a lot in this world I don't know about.

    There is really no way to know what is inside the tire without breaking the bead and having a look.

    An easy thing to check is to make sure the drive shaft is in phase. One out of phase can cause vibration and noise.
     
  3. Jul 12, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Valve stem is my guess. Wouldn't surprise me at all if one of the tire wranglers left it inside.

    We have discussed "balancing beads" here in the past. I personally don't believe they could possibly work as claimed.
     
    Rick Whitson likes this.
  4. Jul 12, 2022
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    the TPS came loose :D
    seriously most likely a missing piece off valve stem
     
    Dwins1 and truckee4x4 like this.
  5. Jul 12, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Listening closer - its a single item (quite possibly a valve stem piece), not a collection of beads. Sounds pretty light - no heft to its sound. Whatever - not too worried about it. Back to figuring out the bad bearing noise....or maybe its just a seriously unbalanced tire?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
  6. Jul 12, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    I'd like to say I know someone with a tire machine but no such luck. I used to use Eagle a lot when they were on N Church but that got sold a couple years back and moved to Griffin Drive. Now it's no different than any other tire shop. The only one I wouldn't take it to is Les Schwab. I checked there for my Toolcat tires last fall and it was indelibly clear they didn't know crap.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  7. Jul 12, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    The more I look into the 'whompf-whompf' noise....the more I think its just low pressure, unevenly worn tires. The tires (BFG KM2) have seen lots of abuse, chunks taken out of the tread, some sidewall wear, cupping etc. I typically run them a bit on the soft side, even on the pavement, and that isn't helping. Anyway....I pulled the rear driveshaft completely out, drove around using only the front driveshaft - still getting the noise, so that eliminates the rear driveshaft u-joint. It does it in only 2wd, so that eliminates the front driveshaft. I even coasted down a small hill with both trans and TC in neutral - still have the noise. I should do it with the engine off and just coast, but basically, I think its down to either the front wheelbearings (sound fine when spinning, no play etc), or something in the rear axle. With my wife acting as the wheel spinner, me listening with a length of hose and what not - again, nothing. All sounds good. I think the chunky tire wear is just getting pretty bad and at around 10-20 mph, the whompfing sound really resonates? May try putting some much higher air pressure just for a test drive and see what happens - and maybe I could rotate them in some way - although the most cupped ones are now on the rear from last summers rotation and balance. If its not the tires, guess my other choice is to pull the rear axles and inspect the axle bearings and races - there was some wear on the old races that I replaced when rebuilding the rear axle with the locker 4 years ago - maybe its coming back?
     
  8. Jul 12, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Whoever mounted your tires pulled the old valve stem out after mounting up the new tire. The bottom piece of the old valve stem broke off and is rolling around in the tire. It's just a piece of rubber, won't hurt anything.
    BTW, balance beads are a legitimate thing...we use them at my work for larger truck tires (F450-F550).
     
  9. Jul 12, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Oh, and you could always try throwing the wheels from your Willys wagon on the CJ and see if that eliminates the problem.
     
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  10. Jul 13, 2022
    boopiejones

    boopiejones I can’t drive 55

    California east bay
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    Balancing beads are awesome. I put them in my Jk on 37’s and tj on 35’s. Only reason I don’t have them on the cj is because I’m running combat wheels with tubes.

    I use about 10 ounces of airsoft pellets in each tire. They’re super smooth on the road at any speed. Only time you notice them is when you’re coming to a stop. At about 5 mph, the beads all fall down, and you can hear them gentling pinging against the inside of the rim. If you’re rolling a tire by hand, you can hear a swooshing sound.

    In the OPs case, valve stem sounds like the most likely culprit.
     
  11. Jul 13, 2022
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    virginia
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    Probably just a valve stem. Have you paid particular attention to the noise in a left handed curve vs a right handed curve? If its a bad wheel bearing, on say the drivers side, the noise will likely be worse when turning to the right because the weight shifts to the drivers side.
     
  12. Jul 13, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    May get to do this the expensive way - with new tires for the CJ....
    [​IMG]

    Guessing this will be considered the sidewall and no-one will want to put a patch on it. Guess I could try plugging it. These KM2s are not new, but was figuring (and budgeting) to get another year out of them. Not excited to drop coin for 4 new tires right now. And no, its not the tire with the broken valve stem rolling around in it. Leadville just keeps getting more and more expensive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
    Stakebed likes this.
  13. Jul 13, 2022
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I would plug it . you know the string kind at FLAPS
    or just put nail back in :whistle:
     
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  14. Jul 13, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Plug that thing and keep on going.
     
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  15. Jul 13, 2022
    Jeepsterjim

    Jeepsterjim Member

    Lincoln, CA
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    Put a boot on it. used to that a lot in the '70's.
     
  16. Jul 13, 2022
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Plug it. Plenty of 33" tires being carried if you need a spare. Providing we can keep the tire carriers together / mounted to the Jeeps
     
    Fireball likes this.
  17. Jul 13, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Agree with everyone else. Just plug it.
     
  18. Jul 14, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yep. That shouldn't cause any problems. No real damage.
     
  19. Jul 14, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Being almost the sidewall, maybe use the mushroom shaped plug, pulled from the inside. Also better able to prevent air infiltrating the belts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
  20. Jul 14, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Duffer - thanks for the rec. Even if they aren't what they once were, they still seem a bit better than the standard chain tire stores. I figured most places wouldn't do an interior patch given the sidewall nature of the puncture, but went around to a few stores anyway - no one would touch it. But the guys at eagle said they'd give it a try - and they did it for free in 20 minutes - its quite possible they did it for free because they didn't want any official record of doing it, and whatever liability or responsibility that would come with it. In return they asked for a positive recommendation online. Seems like a good deal to me...with a little luck it'll get me to next summer.
     
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