What Did I Buy?! (photo Heavy...sorry!)

Hey guys!

Killer forum you've got here! I'm excited to join the club! I usually spend my time over on the old Ford sites (don't judge), as my daily is an 88 F250 with a Diesel, and my project is a 49 F1 going onto a Crown Vic chassis. But I've got some buddies that have gotten into jeeping, so I started keeping my eyes open. When a '73 CJ5 came up for sale outside of Seattle, I had to pounce. I figured, for $3k I could probably just bail and get my money out.

But here's where I start to need some help: what did I buy?! Ha!

I'm diving into a world of research (I love to learn!) and discovering all kinds of new things, but I could use some help identifying things. I am finding it's hard to search when you don't know what it is you have to search for!

I also am discovering this is far from stock (not a bad thing, at least in my eyes), and nothing is labeled (a bit harder), and some of it is quite cobbled together (quite difficult....where'd I put that wire tracer!).

Questions I have:

1. AMC 304, right?
2. He said Holley Double Pumper with an electric choke. Can you confirm?
3. What axles do I have?
4. Lifted, I assume? Can you tell what kit? Or home-brew? Rancho shocks, but who knows what that means.
5. Twin stick transfer case...that's not stock, right?
6. I think I count 4 gears - any idea what Trans that'd be?
7. 4 wheel disc brakes weren't standard, right? Other than bleeding, etc, anything to look out for?
7b. Is that a F/R proportioning valve by the brake booster?
7c. No brake booster stock on these, right? Any idea where this one is from?
8. He said it had Diff Locks front and rear. Any way to verify that, short of taking covers off? (which will probably happen for a fluid swap).
9. Currently doesn't start. Any tips/manuals/videos for getting a Holley Carb set up? Going to YouTube next, but any advice is always welcome.
10. Other than the wiring, what looks sketchy to you? Anything I should be concerned about? Plan is for a pretty full re-do out of the gate (wiring, fluids, chassis paint, maybe body paint too if I feel aggressive). Anything big I should add to the list?


So, without further ado, here's my new toy.

 

I can help with a few things.

• The suspension is not a bolt-in lift kit. It's a custom spring-over conversion with the front shackles moved to the rear of the front axle. I don't know what springs they used for the conversion. By the width and lack of arch, they could be off a YJ Wrangler or some other more modern vehicle. The shackle angles seem a little steep, but I'm not used to flat arched springs so maybe they are OK as is. The lift is pretty big. Looks to be on the order of 6".
  
• Power brakes were optional in '73 but I'm not familiar enough with them to tell you if that's the original booster/master cylinder or not.
• That is an adjustable proportioning valve in the brake line under the master cylinder.
  
• That's definitely and AMC V8. It's most likely a 304 since that's what came from the factory in these, but it could be a 360 or 401. They look identical externally. Others may know of external clues.
  
• The front axles looks like a Dana 44 with a high steer conversion. Not unlikely it's out of a Wagoneer.
• The rear axle looks like a Ford 8.8. Most likely out of an Expolorer.
• You can check for lockers while it's jacked up by putting it in gear and trying to turn an axle shaft on one side. If it has lockers you might be able to turn the axle but it will take some effort to pop it loose. It will probably click while turning and the axle shaft on the other side will not turn. If it's an open diff the other side axle will turn in the opposite direction with little to no resistance. If it's a limited slip, the other side axle will turn in the opposite direction, but it will take some effort to do so.
• Given the level of mods, The transmission and transfer case could be anything. We can't tell you much without pictures. Crawl under there and take some.
• That is a Holley carb, but it doesn't look like a "double pumper". I'm pretty sure all of those came with center pivot float bowls. With the looped bowl vent, it looks like Holley "Truck Avenger" carb. They are good for off-roading and come in several sizes. There is lots of information out on the web about tuning Holleys.

As a whole, it looks like a pretty decent and capable Jeep once you get it all dialed in.

 

The price was 3 K? There is a lot of parts for more value than 3K, IMO.
It seems a really transformed Jeep, you can drive it? All is functional. Seems very cheap.
I couldn't drive this and it seems difficult t come back to stock. Danger of roll over, be careful.

 

Welcome from Oklahoma! I agree with Alan, you got a bargain at 3000. If everything works right you have a very capable jeep there. For good reads on jeep transmissions and transfer cases check out Novak's web site:

https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/

 

Beneath the "patina" the workmanship on the mods seems fairly decent.

 

Welcome, looks like a lot of fun (work)!
The brake booster and power steering look the same as mine, it's a 73 with factory PS/PB. The boosters are no longer available, but can be rebuilt. The brake lines from the master cylinder and on look to have been added on later. The distributor is an HEI type, added on later. Most of the engine bay looks similar to the way mine was, other than the few mods. The steering column is from something later and it looks like a good conversion. You will find out, as I did, the 72-75 can be challenging sometimes to get parts. They were a transition era for AMC and it seems every year was slightly different and sometimes there was differences even with the same model year. As far as I know, the correct transmissions for 73 would be a Borg Warner T15 3-speed and a Borg Warner T-18 4-speed. Both would be connected to a Dana 20 transfer case. The Dana 20 had one shift lever, a short flat bar. Many have been converted over to a dual stick setup because the single stick was sort of a wobbly affair. Not sure about the suspension setup. Mine was completely stock and the springs mounted below the axles. Good luck.

 

I just went out to the garage and looked. There is an engine size cast into the side of the block. It's right where the motor mount attaches to the block on both sides. Mine says 360, it was a transplant.

 

Looks love a great value for the price. To add, half ton front hubs are a nice addition. The front lower stock mount studs have me scaring my head. There’s about half a dozen better ways to do that, just something to think about addressing.

 

This. Lots of people call any Holley 4bbl a "double pumper". Its not, a real double pumper has mechanically operated secondaries, and a 2nd accelerator pump on the rear. You have a vacuum secondary carb (the black pod on the side of the carb), either a Truck Avenger 470 or 670. All the black inside makes it look like it's been on fire, or at least had a serious backfire issue. I imagine a rebuild is in order, which isn't difficult.

 

There is a 1974 TSM available here https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html free to read and download. A '74 is almost identical to a '73. You can get the proper '73 TSM inexpensively at RockAuto. Likely you'll want that.

The only transmission available with the 304 was the Borg-Warner T-15 3-speed. Assuming this Jeep was delivered with a 304, any other transmission was swapped in. That looks like a truck 4-speed shifter. Need more info.

The twin-stick is not stock, but it could be the factory transfer case with a modified shifter. Commonly done. "Twin-stick" does not say anything more. Again, more info needed.

The 304 will have an "H" code in your VIN and an "H" in the tag on the front of the right valve cover. This will also show the engine build date, decoded in the TSM. These V8s have the displacement cast-in to the block on the driver's side near the motor mount bracket. This is definitive. These Jeeps often got 360s or even 401s, since it's the easiest possible engine swap for the 304. Only the 304 from the factory though.

Yeah your Holley has vacuum secondaries and is a TA. Look at the high bowl vent tube. A "double pumper" has mechanical secondaries ie a second accelerator pump for the secondaries: two pumps. The vacuum motor for the secondaries is next to the choke assembly.

Might be a Wagoneer or NT Cherokee front axle with Ford hubs. These fit pretty well width-wise in CJs, though the springs need to be outboarded. Your PO has done some mods to the spring mounts to make it spring-over, mounting the springs closer-in than they would have been with factory Wagoneer spring-under mounts. All the open-knuckle Jeep Wagons were 6 lug, thus the Ford hubs. If so, it's '74-79, and only the later ones got flat top knuckles which I think is what you have with the high-steer conversion (my '77, for example, has a 44 with flat top knuckles).

Fun project. Looks like your helper is ready!

 

Welcome aboard from the other corner of the state! I think you got a steal with that at 3K even if there are a bunch of items that may need addressed. The axles are likely worth what you paid. I too think the transmission appears to be a 4 speed. The brake proportioning valve is the older Wilwood version but these were sold under other names also. The only thing that caught my eye is the welded on high steer arm on the right side knuckle. Looks solid but welding steel to cast in that location is probably something I wouldn't do.

 

That wedge of steel John? Not an expert, but I thought flat-top 44 knuckles provide a flat spot for the high-steer arms. That's what the left knuckle looks like to me. Why would they do the right side differently? Mismatched knuckles?

 

I don't see the typical flat top bolting there like on the left knuckle. Sheared studs and/or wallowed out knuckle threads? Nothing a pair of Reid knuckles wouldn't fix--------

And with all those modifications, I'd be extremely surprised if it still sports a 304.

 

Yes, the 360 is a significant power boost for short money. And super-easy to do. Add a larger bore and better heads (bigger valves) to a 304 and get a 360. And there are many more 360s out there than 304s.

 

I think you just want to brag. You really look too short to be able to drive, or maybe the Jeep is oversize. I agree with all the above and have to say what a steal.

 

What I see. Judging by the shifter tower it looks like a NP 435. The front axle appears to me to be a Chevy 44 with Ford outers off a 1/2 ton super cab, It has massaged in many areas to keep the spring pads in check along with pointing the pinion to the sky. I believe the builder of these had the ability to cut and re-spline shafts to get the fronts to work and to get what looks to be a factory 1/2 ton shaft in the rear in an Explorer housing.

 

Or, just as likely, it has a pair of Dutchman or Moser axles. Sort of like opening a Christmas package.

 

You guys are phenomenal! Thank you for all the help!

Sorry for the delayed response, Sundays tend to be a bit of a busy day for me. But I tell you what, you have given me EXCELLENT info to get started!

Yesterday's progress on the Jeep:

....nope.


But hey, I like to think of it as the foundation phase. You don't see any of it in the final product, you pretty much bury all of it, but it's important to move forward.

I'll try to hit most of the comments: (in no order, this'll be fun)

Thanks for the kind welcome! Fun to see how many are close-ish, even a few fellow Montanan's! Love it!

Am I just here to brag? LOL! Actually made me laugh. And no, I wish I was that clever. If I wanted to brag, I'd show up after it's all done and pretty and be like "look what I just found in a barn! Think I could sell it on bringatrailer for $1M?"

Fantastic information about the axles. I now have a search history full of "SOA or SUA CJ5". Man, I didn't realize what a debate that is! And from my (very uninformed) view, I agree it looks like Wagoneer flattop knuckles. We'll have to see how those welds hold up, though I don't get the feeling this was a "babied" rig so they've got to be some level of stout.

Speaking of axles, crawling under there again, I don't see anything other than vents and brakelines. There would have to be some sort of actuation (elec, pneumatic, etc) to engage a selectable locker, right? I wonder if the back is "Lincoln locker-ed" and the front open. Hmmm. that'd be a bummer. Inspection will verify.

Also, good to know about the AMC engine. He said it's a 304, so I wouldn't be surprised if the internals haven't been touched, since that's what came in them. I'll check the stamping here soon to verify.

I appreciate the info about the carb, and you also answered a secondary question - what is that black vacuum looking thing on the side? A Vacuum actuated secondary makes perfect sense. And also explains why my carb didn't look like the Holley guy's on YouTube.

Ok gang, off to download manuals and scheme the best plan forward. I'll keep everyone in the loop as I keep going. I'm SURE this won't be the last of my questions, hopefully I won't use up all my good graces too quickly.

 

So far, the current plan is this, in order:

1. Remove soft top to gain better access. Maybe seats too so I have a nice big open work area.
2. Cursory diagnose electrical - determine what goes to what, where.
3. Change engine oil
4. Figure out how to start it (this will be mostly carb work, because whatever rudimentary electrical connections needed to start it will be diagnosed in step 2)
5. Clean up wiring (headlights, starting circuit, heater, dash gauges, winch)
6. Figure out my axles:
6a. Drain diffs
6b. Look into replacement springs (maybe new YJ springs, from what I'm reading?). Current set up is waaaay stiff.
6c. Check articulation range (frame up, axles droop. Check for binding and limits)
7. Drain and fill radiator, brakes, trans, diffs
8. Test Drive
9. Chassis paint
10. New Windshield, basic body work, weld fender cracks back together
11. Body paint (maybe? Might go simple Rustoleum or something here, we'll see).
12. Go to Wild Bill and wheel!

What says the hive mind? Good plan? Move anything around? What did I forget?

 

Look at the diagram here (one of the pictures) that shows the carb's features. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/street/parts/0-90670

The welded knuckle does not inspire confidence. Not sure it's legal ... depends on the locale. The Reid knuckles that Duffer suggested above seem like a great upgrade, and this Jeep's likely worth it, esp. for what you have invested.

I am curious about the transmission and transfer case. NP435 is a good unit. If it's not the original transfer case, there's not much of the original Jeep left other than the frame, body and engine (assuming it's the original 304). You could post your VIN ... leave off the last 6 digits of sequential serial number if you worry. I'm assuming it has a title and matching VIN plate.

Yeah, I would go fluids, function, test drive. Steering and brakes are important. These Jeeps do not have a complicated electrical system; lights and ignition should be easy.