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Make Your Own Soft Top (12/2021) Ref Md Juan Tub Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Wirework, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. Dec 11, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    542
    I got a chance yesterday to lengthen my prototype top a bit under two inches:

    [​IMG]

    and finish attaching tie down flaps, and try it on my jeep.

    [​IMG]

    I always have a heck of a time keeping the top tucked into the windshield inverted channel so I did the best I could and just clipped the top to the channel.

    First thing I noticed was... it was too long; 2" additional length was too much at the top of the bow; I could pinch the excess behind my forward bow:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    But the top was not too long at its lowest point on the bow... what the heck! It turns out that the jpet design shortens the top by tapering the back corners where they follow the curve of the bows. The top is shortest where it sits the lowest on the bow ...(under my thumb). This shot also shows that my top width is enough to completely cover the horizontal tubes over my doors:

    [​IMG]

    The drip flap is supposed to attach to and reach down over the horizontal rod above the door from the windshield edge forward, to a spot immediately above the intersection of the horizontal and vertical door jamb intersection... Mine didn't quite make it...

    [​IMG]


    Here's the inside view of the way jpet's design covers the horizontal/vertical door jamb intersection. The washer is shown with the vertical rod removed:
    [​IMG]

    And... the front corners are... ugly...
    And... the rear corners are... ugly...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2021
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  2. Dec 11, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Good news is the canvas will shrink and hide some sins.

    On the front... would you consider making the front long enough to wrap around the channel rope or strip (I missed what you are using) then have the extra come around and velcro to the top panel. That would make it adjustable.
     
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  3. Dec 11, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks for thinking about this with me.
    Luckily this is only the first of several assemblies. This front top is to be fastened to either a rear top, or to a half cab back. In either case, the next major component is guaranteed to pull the front top tighter without adding additional ways to cinch it tighter.

    When pulled taut, the leading edge of the top will stay in the inverted channel at the top of the windshield without additional means to retain it. For this prototype I created that leading edge by wrapping a too thin a piece of plastic with too thin fabric. It just flops around in the channel and falls right out if not immediately pulled tight. These will not occur with the correct materials.

    The next thing I'm doing is adding the flap at the trailing edge of the front top which captures the leading edge of the rear top.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2021
  4. Dec 12, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  5. Dec 12, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks for digging to find that and posting the link!
    Let's see... 8.5 mm is 0.334 in, just over 3/8" diameter.

    [​IMG]

    Looks like 3/8" is at the upper limit.

    Here's a 5/16" dowel in the channel.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a 3/8's steel rod in the channel.

    [​IMG]

    The steel rod got stuck so a 3/8" plastic rod wrapped with fabric might have an issue. Hopefully I can find a flat plastic or smaller dia round.

    Thanks again.
     
  6. Dec 12, 2021
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  7. Dec 13, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    542
  8. Dec 16, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    542
    Prototype #2 almost finished.

    This time with a silver Harbor Freight 7.5'x5.5' tarp.
    Top,:
    [​IMG]

    Bottom:
    [​IMG]

    I made the side drip flaps a bit longer...
    [​IMG]

    And I added the rear flap which captures the rear top (when I get to it).
    [​IMG]

    I took an inch out of the length front to back, but it is still a bit long but it needs to be to allow for shrinkage. And I left material in the front corners so I can figure out a good transition from the windshield inverted channel to the side. Otherwise I'm done changing it :)

    I'll show it attached soon. (Lots of Christmas activities taking priority!!) :)
     
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  9. Dec 20, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    542
    I got a chance to place prototype #2 on my CJ5 today. It is an improvement in several ways. I'm still relying on the rear top (next) to pull the front top tighter but I'm mostly satisfied overall.

    [​IMG]

    I left material in the front corners to gather a bit and to sew and cup it around the windshield edge. These kind of details actually make me crazy. They take me WAY longer to do than they should and I'm rarely completely satisfied with the results. Someone with an artfull eye would be better I'm sure. I'll show what I mean in a later post ...after I try.


    I think the drip flap (which wraps around the overhead horizontal door frame) is just a bit too far forward, but can't be certain until the door is attached. Making the drip flaps, I learned that every location getting fasteners MUST be reinforced with a second layer of fabric. And there is something just a bit wrong with the cut of my top material because the drip flaps pull it down and buckle it in a funny way. I'm guessing that the material traveling over the top of my extra added top support has further to travel than the material along the side... so that needs to be taken out somehow. My wife says it needs a "dart". Oh boy... so now I need to research sewing "darts".

    [​IMG]

    And from the rear quarter...

    [​IMG]

    Sorry about the poor photos... Reflective silver "cloth" in a garage after sundown doesn't photograph all that well.

    I think I'm going to move to the rear top and give the front a break :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  10. Mar 22, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Happy SPRING 2022.

    After a few months of being sort of ...lazy, to be honest... I cut a simple rectangle using a slight modification of the "JPET" (THECJ2APAGE. COM) "Rear Top" drawing, to fit my CJ5, and duct taped it to the Front Top.

    [​IMG]

    I made it a bit longer front to back on purpose to give me a chance to compensate for shrinkage. I understand canvas shrinks a LOT. I thought to sew a fabric overlap into the length so as it shrinks I can remove a few stitches. But since I'll be using CS ("Common Sense" brand ) twist fasteners with fixed spacing I don't know how that could work. JPET washed and dried his canvas twice(!) before cutting his pieces out, and his still shrunk! But that sounds like the best approach, so... I'll just make it a bit too big in both directions. These military canvas tops always fit a bit loose at first anyway... right ? :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
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  11. Mar 25, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Next, I followed the JPET drawings for the rear face (arched rear opening) and then sewed it to the rear compartment top. It fit remarkably well... except where it curved with my home made bows. A standard EMT tubing bender produces larger radius turn than the production jeep bow. JPET's bows were made to original specs. So my top isn't tight against the bow.

    [​IMG]

    You can see where I sketched a "better" seam location to more closely match the curve of my bow.

    I ripped out the seam and re-sewd it. Here's how it came out.

    [​IMG]

    Next, I cut out the rear flap:

    [​IMG]

    And from the inside:

    [​IMG]

    I tried to reverse the several reinforcing pieces to provide a contrasting color. It worked out ...mostly. The reinforcement is added in areas where fasteners attach. (I'm not wasting fasteners on the prototype.)

    When I can grab a few more days, I'll start on the side curtains.

    I have to say, I'm really surprised how well the the CJ2a top pattern fits my CJ5. Based on what I've seen so far, my biggest problem is likely going to be compensating in advance for expected shrinkage of virgin canvas.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
  12. Mar 26, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    So, today I used the JPET drawings to cut and sew the Front Curtain, which fits between the vertical front door jamb and the first (forward) bow. I knew in advance I'd need to make some changes since I previously chose to use conduit tubing as a door frame instead of the factory standard 3/8" solid rods.

    If I read the posting correctly, it appears the JPET drawings were developed by his exactly copying a few sample original canvas tops. He then shared those with the world and gave any CJ2a enthusiast an opportunity to make perfect replicas. I note he tried to capture dimensions to two decimal places. Since I can't measure or cut closer than about 1/8", I rounded all his fractions to the nearest 1/8". Besides, a new top has to be made maybe inches large to compensate for shrinkage. Anyway, rounding to the nearest 1/8 is plenty good enough for me :)

    The differences between the CJ2a tops and CJ5 tops can be incorporated via minor modifications to the JPET patterns. The only difficulty is not knowing in advance what those differences are. But it turns out that even a perfect top produced from the JPET drawings isn't likely to be a perfect fit on a CJ2a; JPET clearly advises everyone to expect to make modifications to fit their individual jeep..

    So far I had to modify the Front Top to fit into the channel at the top of my windshield, and modify the Rear Top curve to fit my diy rear bows.

    Here's my prototype (tarp material) Front Side Curtain pinned together and ready to sew. It matches the JPET drawing as closely as I was able.

    [​IMG]

    When I duct taped it to my front bow and to my vertical door frame it was too narrow. It seems the location of my CJ5 vertical door frame is further forward than that of the CJ2a. Plus, I needed to add material to wrap around my (conduit) vertical door frame and also modify the curtain to add fasteners to hold it in place. The JPET Front Side Curtain is made to be sewn around the vertical door frame rod and to fasten around the horizontal door frame rod... so I had to add material to fit my conduit at the top too.

    Here it is with 4" of material added.

    [​IMG]

    And here it is "installed" (with duct tape).

    [​IMG]

    The blue flap to the rear will carry the female CS fasteners to engage and hold the (future) Rear Curtain.

    There are still a few unknowns related to this piece. I've never mounted my doors. I'm sure my door is designed to latch closed by clamping a 3/8 vertical steel door frame rod, so... hmmm. 'No idea how I'll approach that, but we'll see later :). And although the Front Top hangs over the same bow as the Front Side Curtain, is attached to, I notice that their two fastener cover flaps don't line up. Hmmm. I thought they whould. But then I remembered that the forward bow is designed to lean toward the rear. So maybe it should look like this. I'm going to have a second look.

    I think this is good enough for now. I'll either remake this the "right" size, or jump impatiently into making the rear side curtain...

    Ok, it's usually been a mistake for me to move forward without cleaning up, so my conscience will likely win and I'll re-make this Front Curtain plus make another one (mirror image) for the other side. Rats.

    Oh, and while I'm thinking about it. It isn't always 100% clear from the drawings that every time you use CS fasteners or straps you have to use two thicknesses of material (reinforcement). Knowing that makes it easier to understand why there are so many pieces of fabric. JPET tried to exactly match the original top design, but I've found it easier to just make the entire section double thick everywhere in some instances to reduce the piece count... but it does make my top heavier.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  13. Mar 27, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I had a free couple of hours today so I took a look at my door. Oh, boy...

    I acquired the door(s) when I bought a 1970/71 black leather Whitco top and doors on Ebay about 5 years ago. I replaced the clear flexible plastic windows in them but didn't have the right upper hinges and so I never got them mounted on my Jeep.

    When I made the decision to do a conduit door frame, I just used the existing door frame "well" in the upper edge of the body as a location guide, without so much as looking at how it worked with the door. Oops.

    It seems the Witco door overlaps the standard "well" location by about 4" which means it overlaps my side curtain by that amount. :( Funny that's exactly how much I had to grow the width of the Front Side Curtain. :/

    [​IMG]

    Here it is from the inside:

    [​IMG]

    Notice the inside door handle is not visible; it's on the outside of the new side curtain. Clearly I have a problem. The easiest solution is to switch back to the 3/8" solid rod for the vertical door frame by re-locating the "well" to the position it needs to be in for this door frame. But that will mean the drip edge over the doorway will also need to be reworked. I'll likely keep the upper conduit door frame and maybe drill it to accept the vertical rod.

    Job security.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
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  14. Mar 27, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Well. I may have gotten lucky this afternoon... we'll see... I remembered that my brother, Joe, brought home a free set of discarded fabric Jeep doors from the annual Hershey auto swap meet last year. When I got them, I laid them on top of my Whitco doors and they were really different. The base curve didn't fit the tub doorway very well, they were shorter, and they were about 4" less wide.

    Take a look:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    But... they line up perfectly with my vertical conduit door frame, and the handle latching mechanism seems easily modified to grab the conduit's larger diameter.

    One way or the other, I have a lot of work to do on these doors. :)

    But not tonight.
     
  15. Mar 31, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    542
    I got a few hours each day to keep chipping away on my prototype HF tarp soft top. Soon I'll be disassembling every part of the prototype to create patterns right on my canvas material, so an accurate prototype matters. So, I made two new front curtains (fills the gap between the vertical door jamb and the first bow) since the first one was a bit patched together. (No new pictures since you can't tell the difference.)

    I modified the front curtains a bit. The original had a horizontal tunnel sewn across the top which was designed to be slid over the very end of the 3/8" solid horizontal door frame rod where it ties into the forward bow. But I used 1" conduit. So I adopted a flap and will use CS fasteners to keep it in place. (I haven't purchased the CS fasteners yet.)

    Next I transfered the JPET Rear Curtain drawing to my HF tarp and cut it out. To reduce my sewing and piece count, I incorporated the reinforcement material by extending the fabric length 2.5" - 3" on three sides (once again, reinforcement is required wherever CS fasteners will be installed).

    Well, I made a mistake. When I sketched in the window cut out, I failed to compensate for my added reinforcement material. :/ And since I was making both the right and left sides at the same time by stacking my fabric to cut it, both were cut wrong at the same time. While I have enough tarp to completely replace them, I thought I'd just patch them and use them so I could show the world my mistake. :)

    [​IMG]

    The brown "trim" in the upper left window cut out nicely displays my mistake.

    Here's a rear view where the attachment flap will use CS fasteners.

    [​IMG]

    You may note in the upper left corner a rather messy intersection where the Rear Top, Rear Curtain, and Rear Flap all meet. After taking this photo, I modified the Rear Curtain attachment flap by cutting material off the flap so I could sew the Rear Roof completely together at that bow curve.

    I note the side curtain and the rear flaps are not the same length... 'not sure if that is authentic or not. I'll have to check that. I'm also not sure if the length should overlap the "break" in the tub edge of my or fit inside it... Ditto, I'll need to do some research.

    You can't see it, but the Rear Roof relies on the straps pulling down the Rear Flap to keep the roof and flap tight. I worried that if I drive with the side curtains and rear flap rolled up, everything will be beat around too much in the wind. So, just like the Front Roof, I added three internal bow attachment flaps on the underside, at the rear of the Rear Roof. I as lso did a bit of trimming of the Front Curtains in the corners to reduce bunching where their attachment flaps reach around the door frames and bows.

    I'm ignoring that I have not resolved my door width question, and I'm about to begin with my canvas,!!! SHRINKAGE isnowmy #1, 2, and 3 worry... as in how do I compensate for shrinkage, and how much do I compensate, and will any pre-treatment prevent it, and if I do compensate for shrinkage, what impact does that have on fastener location especially. Hmmm...

    One other concern is my having purchased a heavier than authentic canvas duck fabric. There are several occurrences of many multiple fabric layers. Driving my needle through all those layers while keeping control of my sewing machine is not a trivial problem.

    And I still need to buy binding and hardware for the tie down straps. And I need to attach the footman loops and some of the fasteners in the right locations on the tub body.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
  16. Mar 31, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I wonder what the pop-up camper forums could answer?
     
  17. Apr 2, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I decided to work a bit on my doors and cut off the old fabric, wire brushed one of the frames, and painted both latches. Then I fit the driver's side door frame on the body to gauge how much work it would need to fit properly.

    [​IMG]

    The door frame bottom arch is exaggerated.

    [​IMG]

    The bottom corner sits back too far into the lower body curve.

    [​IMG]

    And although it's not clear from the photo, both hinges need to be relocated inward to keep the frame from binding. And because of my larger diameter door frames, the inside latch handle needs to be modified to suit.

    I also need to repair the lower hinge well; a tack weld broke and the cup fell out :/
    And I need to install the c-channel which retains the upper door edge, and install an appropriate upper hinge. I have three different sets of upper hinges, but none seem perfect. Two of them have a leading edge cut at the wrong angle, well, wrong for the slant of my windshield anyway...

    'Not too sure I'll spend any more time on the doors for now. I'm not prepared to heat and bend the door rods right now and that must be completed before I can prototype the door cloth pattern.

    I decided to prototype another rear flap to be mounted immediately behind the front seats to create all the standard options. And I'm going to prototype a Bininni top to replace my junky one, before I start cutting canvas fabric.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
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  18. Apr 2, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Thanks for the comment...
    I haven't checked camper top forums, but TheCJ2aPage.com "Build your own canvas top" post (by JPET) does make a lot of good suggestions.
     
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  19. Apr 2, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I used to be active on "popupportal" before we got the hard side. That and the roof top tents seem to have some good info from what I remembered.
     
  20. Apr 2, 2022
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    I checked photos of military canvas tops and see that all the side curtain skirt lengths reach below the indent around the edge of the tub. I still need to confirm the footman loop locations which the curtain straps attach to.
     
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