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Make Your Own Soft Top (12/2021) Ref Md Juan Tub Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Wirework, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. Dec 4, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    [​IMG]

    So... I have a 1969 CJ5 with a MD JUAN tub built to resemble a US Navy version of the CJ5's they used on naval air stations of that era. We chose to do it that way to pay tribute to so many of our family members who spent time in the Navy.

    It's been about 4-5 years since we finished working on the rebuild, but I never thought it complete since it doesn't have a military style soft canvas top. I've been preparing to do the top that whole time, and I think I'm finally ready to begin.

    I got my industrial sewing machine up (Singer model 111) and running and I converted my pool table and ping-pong table into a sewing layout table. I bought a handful of attachments to make my edges and seams look better. I have my UV resistant thread and several tarps to practice on, and my heavy "duck" canvas for the final soft top product. I have strap material. I fabricated original style bows using electrical conduit with some deviations from stock/original for added strength.

    I have digital copies of the "jpet" theCJ2Apage.com military canvas top pattern, but no inexpensive way to print them.

    I've identified replica fastener sources.

    I've begun working on hanging my 1970 Whitco doors, but have a way to go.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  2. Dec 4, 2021
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Wow.....My hat's off to you, Sir.
     
  3. Dec 4, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Have you contacted jpet for tips and advice? He might be able to send you a print if he isn't busy with work.
     
  4. Dec 5, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I did exchange texts with jpet (Jeff), nice guy! He can no longer do full size prints but offered to patch together 11x7 pages of a few drawings if I really get in trouble. I don't want to burden him unnecessarily, so I'll make a go of it with the stuff he already published.
    I also found out he recently opened a small hobby business and now has a "military" canvas top for the CJ5. (last price I saw was $1100). Here's his top (picture is jpet's from his site: classicjeeptops.com)

    [​IMG]

    I'd buy one in a heart beat, but I'm in this for the experience of doing my own.
     
  5. Dec 6, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Doing a bit more research on what it takes to sew your own military style canvas top, I found on jpet's post on thecj2apage.com, the following layout of all the pieces on a single piece of fabric:

    [​IMG]

    Impressive!! Actually... scary!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
    Adventure Van likes this.
  6. Dec 7, 2021
    Uncle Vin

    Uncle Vin Member 2022 Sponsor

    Long Island, New...
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    That's a CAD file. You should be able to have any blueprint shop print that for you at a nominal cost. BUT, you will need the CAD file from jpet.
     
  7. Dec 8, 2021
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    We have a blue print printer at work
     
  8. Dec 8, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I got a quote from FEDEX (was Kinkos) a while ago... I believe it was about $100. I wasn't aware there were blueprint printing services around... I'll fish around for a local one! Thanks
     
  9. Dec 8, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    Thanks for the offer!

    But before I impose on anyone I'm going to try making a few pieces by just transferring dimensions to my prototype material. I'm concerned that the CJ5 is sufficiently different from the CJ2A that exact patterns may not work anyway. And, my personal modifications, deviations and hand-made part variations from "stock" will likely drive several pattern changes too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
  10. Dec 8, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  11. Dec 8, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
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    So... Over the last few days I printed an 8x10 copy of jpet's (thecj2apage.com) front roof pattern, which he developed from donated original military canvas tops and a few prototype iterations.

    I knew I'd need to change his pattern to compensate for my windshield attachment (tuck inside the channel), for my use of EMT conduit in place of horizontal solid rods and door frames, for my use of 3 extra horizontal top supports, for deviations in my hand-made bows, and for possible dimensional variations in my windshield position side to side. I also saw a few things on the jpet design which I wanted to change (gaps, mostly).

    I started by checking the dimensions on jpet's print vs the matching dimensions on my jeep

    [​IMG]

    and capturing any differences by marking the print, like this:

    [​IMG]

    At the same time, I tried to integrate the front edge fold required to slip into my small inverted channel on the windshield top edge (the military's version of the CJ2A uses twist lock tabs). And, I wanted the overhang over the doors longer to close some gaps typical of the original top (shrinkage??).

    I copied the transition at the windshield corner from my black Bimini top.

    These are the drawings jpet created for just the front top.

    [​IMG]

    My first task was to use the marked up drawing to create all these pieces and sew them together.

    Transferring the flat layout sketch wasn't at all difficult. Really you just transfer the outside edge line of each component on to the fabric at full scale and start cutting. Only one piece had a curve and that curve needed to match the curve in my forward bow. I found a plastic Tupperware lid with a radius acceptably "close enough" to my bow curve, and I traced it where it needed to be on the pattern.

    [​IMG]

    The original military top sometimes had a centerline "french seam" so I tried to duplicate that:

    [​IMG]

    Most of the sewing is straight lines a fixed distance from the edge. Eventually you get an eye for it and a feel for your industrial weight machine, but until you do... it can look pretty rough. I hope to get my groove back before I try my good material :)

    There are also several sewing tools available for edges, seams, and bindings which align the material exactly where it needs to be in front of the needle. Mine recently arrived (!!) but are yet untested :(

    The front top has to tie to the front windshield, the forward bow and the horizontal door supports (and mine has to attach to an extra support plus navigate around two extra supports I added for the rear roof.) I'll be using the same style twist tab connectors used on the original military canvas tops. Everywhere those connections attach, extra fabric reinforcement (extra fabric layers) is provided. Here's a shot of the reinforcement being added on the bottom of the front (windshield edge).

    [​IMG]

    The hardest seam to make is at the back edge where a short vertical skirt is added "behind" the forward bow. The flat top fabric is attached to a curved edge which follows the bow curve... Just use LOTS of pins to hold the pieces together!!

    [​IMG]

    After sewing a plastic strip into the front edge (for the channel on the windshield),

    [​IMG]

    adding the reinforcement, and attaching the back skirt, I wanted to see how I was doing. So I threw it on to my jeep.

    Ouch.

    I hated the way the windshield corner looked and the gap it promised when the door was added. Next time no "cut out" there.

    [​IMG]

    And... I used up too much material in my seams, which left my top too short; it wouldn't reach all the way over the back of the forward bow... And that's not counting inevitable shrinkage.

    [​IMG]

    And... I did not provide gaps in my back shirt for my rear top extra horizontal top supports.

    [​IMG]

    And... My sides still don't reach down enough to cover my horizontal door supports.

    [​IMG]

    Wow!! I learned a LOT!

    I'm going to continue adding pieces to this prototype until I've exhausted it's usefulness. Next (tomorrow??) I'll be adding the flaps which attach the top to the supports.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
    melvinm, Dne007, fhoehle and 3 others like this.
  12. Dec 8, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    :)
    I was at Hershey this year too!

    I'm pretty far down the rabbit hole with the bows I made myself. But I can see my hand conduit bender didn't create curves anywhere near as tight as the purchased bows.

    I think I'll finish a few prototypes with what I have and if I don't like the look. I'll reconsider stock bows before using my original material.

    Thanks for the link to this info!
     
  13. Dec 9, 2021
    jwmckenzie

    jwmckenzie Sponsor

    Boston, MA
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    I have been lurking on this tread as you make your prototypes.. I don't have an industrial sewing machine but have been thinking of making a prototype out of light canvas, and then finding someone to make one out of the proper material. Keep the pics coming.

    Thanks.
     
    Dne007 likes this.
  14. Dec 9, 2021
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Did you ever get a CAD file? If not, and you have a high res version of that black JPEG pasted above, I'd be happy to try and vectorize it for you.
     
  15. Dec 9, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I re-read the jpet post on thecj3page.com and I see a comment he made about designing a canvas top which could be made on a standard sewing machine (!!). I personally wouldn't recommend trying it on a machine with plastic gears, but I think it is possible.

    There are very few stitches which would particularly challenge a standard machine... those are (at least) the straps (but you could select light weight... thin.. straps). And there are a few intersections at edges where bindings cross which create 6-7 layers of fabric.

    The other consideration is needle size and thread size. Your machine has to accept a sufficiency large needle and thread. But, again I think it likely there are standard domestic sewing machines which can do it.
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  16. Dec 9, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I did find CAD files for the individual pieces (I must have gotten them from Jeff/jpet 3-4 years ago and forgot about them), but I do not have a CAD file of the large layout. I'll ask Jeff if he'd send me one and get his permission to share it here.

    Jeff emphasizes over and over that his design is just a starting point and likely needs some tweaking for every different Jeep. So, I'm being a bit slow/hesitant to accept much help from people because I don't want to waste their generosity. I'm hoping to expose some of the differences you can run into when starting with the jpet drawings and applying them to a random CJ5 , mine :)

    That said, if I can share anything I have which will help another's effort, I'm very happy to do that!!
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  17. Dec 9, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I'm in my sewing space getting ready to make the tie down flaps and thinking about necessary modifications:

    jpet's door rods are standard (small diameter solid steel), mine are EMT conduit (about the same size as standard bows). So, I have to make the front roof's side attachment flaps ("drip flaps") wider to reach around my larger diameter horizontal tube. His rear "hold down flaps" are already made wide enough to reach around a standard bow, so I'll follow that width example in modifying the drip flap width.

    jpet's design called for 3 "hold down flaps" at the forward bow, but I have an extra transverse/side-to-side support (over the driver's head), so I'm adding fabric reinforcement in the roof and 3 more "hold down flaps" for that extra support.

    I should make a hold down flap first and see if it can reach around the MAKER connector which holds my support tubes together.

    I'll also have to cut a gap in the side "drip flaps" to clear my additional support's intersection with the horizontal tube above the doorway.

    And the rear hold down flaps need to be positioned/modified to avoid the extra horizontal supports I added above the back of the jeep.

    Just to capture a few thoughts... jpet's design cuts sperate pieces to make "reinforcement" layers in the fabric at the attachment hardware locations and rubbing areas. I presume that might allow us to use a thinner bolt of cloth, but I'm inclined to just make my roof piece longer and wider (if my bolt of cloth allows) and then fold back the edge to provide fabric reinforcement when needed at the edges. I wonder if that would permit me to not use binding on most edges, which would help eliminate layers and ease the load on a standard machine, not to mention the skill or tool required to do bindings well.

    I don't think I recognized the effect my extra roof support (above the driver's head) had on the front roof's length, front to back. That support creates a "bump" in the roof which means the top needs to be longer to get over the bump. That's probably the biggest reason my prototype top didn't reach over the bow.
     
    Jw60 and truckee4x4 like this.
  18. Dec 9, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    So, here's the first front roof rear hold down flap. I doubled it over, pinned it and cut the corner radius.

    [​IMG]

    And then sewed it (I'm not wasting binding on the prototype). Then I sewed it on to the bottom rear of the front top, at the back skirt attachment seam.

    [​IMG]

    Next, I'll try it on the jeep to see how well it covers my bow and see if it can work properly with my MAKER conduit connectors.

    I saw a note in the jpet post that the location of the attachment stitch matters so that the flap opens in the direction of the perpendicular intersection with other support rods. Normally there is a centerline support over the front cab. So normally the centerline flap would open towards the windshield. But my roll bar interfered with all attempts to fabricate and attach a centerline support so I substituted a transverse support. , So, it's my drip flap hold downs I'll needy to worry about..
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  19. Dec 9, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You can do it! (y)
    :watch::beer:
     
  20. Dec 9, 2021
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim

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    So... here's the way jpet's hold down flap fits around EMT conduit (and, if necessary, how it fits around the MAKER conduit connectors):

    [​IMG]

    Only the most observant will detect my use of a stapler to cinch the two flap sides together after forming them around the conduit and the MAKER connector... Bottom line... jpet's flap works without modification. Also, I didn't feel like climbing into the back of the jeep to test the flap in it's target position, so I tried it above the driver's door where my extra transverse support ties into the horizontal rod above the door.

    Now the Drip Flap. The width of jpet's drip flap is about 1.5" less than his hold down flap, since the drip flap has to wrap around a small diameter rod and the hold down flap has to wrap around a bow (a piece of EMT conduit in my case). So I need to make my drip flap the same width as my hold down flap. Easy peasy.

    Jpet was trying to closely replicate an original military canvas top. I just want to get "close enough" to capture that feel. Some of the other details captured in jpet's drawings will need to give way to my dimensional constraints :). For the Drip Flap that means the angle taper at the front and rear have to change.

    So I transfered jpet's Drip Flap dimensions (with my modifications) on to my Harbor Freight tarp material and used household lids and glasses to draw connecting arcs as needed.

    [​IMG]

    Since I need two mirror image pieces, I pinned two pieces of tarp back to back and cut along my sketch.

    [​IMG]

    And I separated them and then pinned and sewed them to the bottom of the front roof, per the jpet assembly drawing (while pushing my extra width towards the center).

    [​IMG]

    Tomorrow I'll grab my stapler and see how it fits on my jeep! :)

    But first I intend to cut it side to side into two pieces, add 1.5" front to back, and sew it together so I can get a better feel for how it actually might fit over the bows. I have to add reinforcement above my added transverse support anyway, so I'll place the length adjustment right there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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