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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Sep 20, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I give up...I am lost....sorry but I am not getting whatever it is that people are telling me...
    putting the heater back in, parking it back on the street - it can burn and leak a qt of oil every month and just be an ice cream getter for a while.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  2. Sep 20, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    It's alright, if we knew everything we wouldn't need this site.
    I just recall all the work that's been put into this v8 too keep it cool and such. Now I read this as a few issues.
    1 no comfortable road gear
    2 t-90 isn't reaching target for performance
    3 engine is worn out and uncommonly early production.
     
  3. Sep 21, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    Re-did the compression test with a hot engine and all the plugs out - seems a little better:
    #1: 100
    #3: 105
    #5: 130
    #7: 115

    #2: 118
    #4: 105
    #6: 112
    #8: 112

    Then did a leakdown test on #1: 20% loss on two separate tests
    Listening through a rubber hose, the loudest most obvious out flow was the dipstick tube, next was the valve cover breather (immediately above #1), then the carb horn when throttle plate is opened, and then the road draft tube. No sound in the exhaust system, nor in the radiator, nor in the adjacent cylinder. Kind of sounds like intake valve issue - and probably some worn rings as well? That was just number #1....
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  4. Sep 21, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Does the pressure come up with a squirt of oil? The oil will slow the air migration past the rings and you can better determine if it is the valve guides.
     
  5. Sep 22, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    Replacing the glove box....Using a idea I saw Focker use in his build (he links another thread where he found it): Focker's '71 CJ5 Drivable Build

    The wagon doesn't have the support gusset thing he had to cut around, but it turns out the outside rear corner doesn't quite fit and has to be cut down anyway. I used one of the cheap $10 50cal ammo cans from HF. The lid slides right off the hinges and I removed the handle so it wouldn't rattle around when driving. Comparison of the cardboard box (which I would guess is not OEM, but some proper fitting aftermarket replacement) with the ammo can:
    [​IMG]

    Dimensions for the cardboard box is just about 10.75"x5" for the front opening and 9.5" deep.
    as compared to the ammo can at 11"x5.5" for the front opening and 7" deep.
    The bottom dash support in the wagon is different than the flat edge in the cj5 - there is actually two lips on the wagon - the OEM box mounts just under the upper lip, and the door hinge mounts on the lower lip. The ammo can fits better on the lower lip, so mounting took a relief cut on the bottom of each side as well as removal of one of the hinges (eventually I removed the next hinge as well to make clearance for the side mounting hole and nut):
    [​IMG]

    And then the outside back corner needed clearance (I was expecting at only 7" deep, I wouldn't run into any interference, but the extra half inch of height and inflexible metal doesn't quite fit):
    [​IMG]

    So that led to the question of whether to leave the corner open or to try and weld in thin sheet metal to keep the box 'enclosed'. I went with the weld in a patch, which was a bit tedious given the how thin the can sides are - maybe 22 gauge? I had some 18 gauge sheet metal I made the patch from, and it was thicker than the ammo can. Even at the lowest setting, it was trying to burn the can away more than weld it. Its not pretty, but it won't be visible once painted and installed....If I did it over again, I probably would skip the patch and just leave the open corner....(or maybe overlap the patch and spot weld it in)....
    [​IMG]

    Need to cut a relief slot for the door hanger - I am using the same bottom mounts as the door hinges use (not the same ones the cardboard box uses), so can test fit that on the bench....
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Add a couple holes on the sides - spacer required on one side between the dashboard tab and the inside of the can as the box is just a bit wider than the OEM. To minimize interference with the top of the cowl and to simplify the door hanger hook slot, I chose to push the box to the driver side and put the spacer there.
    [​IMG]

    As the can mounts on the lower frame lip, whereas the OEM box uses the upper lip, there is a bit of dead space back under the upper lip - might eventually fill that with a bit of spongy foam or whatnot to keep things from disappearing under it....
    [​IMG]

    It needs cleaning and painting....but the test fit looks good and its mounted solidly. Going to get some grey paint instead of dark so its easier to see the stuff inside of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  6. Sep 23, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    Looks good! You're going to need to line the inside with some kind of material, otherwise anything hard bouncing around and hitting metal will be extremely annoying. Unless of course you only have stuff like paper or cloth in there. If you're like me though sooner or later you'll put something hard in there that will rattle.
     
    dozerjim likes this.
  7. Sep 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    I was thinking of spraying some plasti-dip on the inside to provide some dampening - but I don't keep much in the box except paperwork and my phone and wallet when driving. I also keep a jacket in the cj box, but not sure that is as much an issue with the wagon. In terms of banging around, not sure anything in the glove box can be worse than the jack and tire iron that is in the underseat box sliding and bumping around.
     
    Glenn likes this.
  8. Sep 23, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    The plasti-dip ought to work good.
     
  9. Sep 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Been testing and retesting the leak down numbers as well as trying to listen to where the air might be going. In short, I think its just an old tired engine, but a few things did pop out - its kind of a practice project as I can make some diagnosis and then maybe can see them if/when things get torn apart. Anyway, here are the numbers:
    #1: 20% - lots of hissing through the carb, as well as dipstick and draft tube
    #2: 23% - slight exhaust hiss, mostly through dipstick and draft tube
    #3: 22% - mostly through dipstick and draft tube
    #4: 20% - slight exhaust hiss, as well as dipstick and draft tube
    #5: 24% - mostly through dipstick and draft tube
    #6: 24% - mostly through dipstick and draft tube
    #7: 16% - slight hiss in carb, mostly through dipstick and draft tube
    #8: 22% - slight exhaust hiss and mostly through dipstick and draft tube.

    The single most noticeable issue is the very distinctive hiss through the carb on #1...seems pretty distinctive to be an intake valve issue - maybe burned or not sealing properly? Compared to the other slight hisses in the exhaust and carb (#7 only), this is definitely much worse. Wondering if its worth it to pull a valve cover and see what I can determine from looking at the rocker arm valve spring? In reality, it may not matter as I think everything is just a bit worn and tired and needs attention, but was interesting to see how 1 specific cylinder really could be identified as having an issue.
     
  10. Sep 23, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Jan 10, 2014
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    She's just tired and needs refreshing. Assuming everything is in usable condition; a valve job, reface the valves, and guide work along with some block work will get you back in the game. If you take the heads off and fill the intake/exhaust ports with solvent or something similar you can better determine what valves are leaking without disassembling the cylinder heads. If you have a vacuum pump and some cylindrical discs that seal good you could pull a vacuum on each one to determine which are leaking. It will also tell you about your valve guide condition.
     
  11. Nov 22, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Pulled the transmission today...seemed to take me all day, but at least its out. I find the sbc-t90j adapter bellhousing to be a bit odd - and its one source of significant oil leak. Looking through the floorpan tunnel:
    [​IMG]

    When the t90 came out, there is no front bearing retainer on it. Either it seems to be built into the adapter bellhousing, or its stuck in there. As oil flows through the front bearing, it fills the cavity around the center ring, and there is only a paper gasket between the the t90 and bellhousing, and the old gasket was toast letting oil drip out between the two - kind of like a bad RMS leaks out at the front of the bellhousing, but this is at the rear. I am done for today - skiing tomorrow - but I'll get the bellhousing off next and see what its all about. I'll get you pics of the homemade clutch set-up....

    oh....and as you can tell, the decision to keep it meant to start making it usable. It was either sell it or fix it up, it just wasn't going to work for me as is - i.e. barely running. So, we'll see how long this takes....
     
    Fireball likes this.
  12. Nov 22, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Try a Sealed front bearing. Put the bell on the Transmission for the install. Use bolts with the heads cut off then the shaft slotted for alignment on install.
    Are you planning to rebuild it's a good Transmission to learn on.
     
  13. Nov 22, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    I generally don't have room to install transmissions with bellhousing on the transmission - this is done on the garage floor with short jack stands. Even as is right now, the T90/D18 won't roll out from under the willys on the transmission jack. Usually I have to roll it off onto the floor and slide it out under the side frame rail. If the engine gets pulled soon - I might just wait until then, and then hoist it out the empty engine bay. No plans to put money in the t90 as at most, it might go back in for a bit. But at some point, the goal will be to get the engine placement done right, which means new cross-member etc, and that is when I'll put in the sm465. Welding in the engine mounts, Building the cross-member and doing to floor pan work is the intimidating stuff - fabricating stuff is my problem.... I've rebuilt the T14 and the D18 (and did the TL install) in the cj...The SM465 isn't much harder except I might have to work with a press to get the bushings on. Have to decide if its going to get the 3rd gear replacement update as well)....
     
  14. Nov 25, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Making a bit of progress...
    Cleaning up the gunk has been priority #1:
    [​IMG]

    But making progress...the T90 is all clean and set-aside...D18 separated and mostly cleaned up as well as got the yokes and nuts off....glad to find the yoke wrench I made a few years ago could be put to use again. Rebuild kit is on order, but not jumping into right this moment - just trying to do a couple things and clean, then put it back on finger tight and set it aside as for just a bit as well.
    [​IMG]

    Here is the homemade clutch system - cable hooked into the pedal, then goes around the pulley and to the clutch fork with some cable clamps. There is a threaded eye bolt mounted into the fork that the cable connects to with a link....and bailing wire you see on the fork is holding the return spring to the fork. The fork looks like it has been cut and welding to lengthen it....getting this shenanigans fixed up right is another aspect I am not so sure about....thinking a cable clutch set-up like I have on the cj5 that will use a D18 mount I picked up from a member here - would have to weld an angle bracket to the inside of the frame rail to mount the other end of the cable sheath. Don't know much about the OEM wagon clutch system - guessing it doesn't fit correctly with an sbc? Something to look into.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Finally...added another piece of the puzzle...picked up the Novak motor mounts from a member here - thanks Phillip (Jobhater)!
    [​IMG]

    The plan is pull the rest of the bellhousing and clutch, and begin stripping the engine pieces to get it pulled out...
     
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  15. Nov 26, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Making progress...I think the only thing left to disconnect is the power steering hoses and pull the pump and bracket (oh and I need to pull the distributor, but it won't come out with the back end held up just a bit high on the jackstand)....Last time I did this on the cj5 I pulled the carb and some other stuff, but thinking it should be okay as is....That is about all I can get done today...going over to clean my father's gutters and then traditional holiday dinner...Happy Thanksgiving all....
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Nov 26, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    I just purchased the same mounts, except with the engine side plate for a 302. Going in my son's pickup:)
     
  17. Nov 27, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
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    Engine is out....
    [​IMG]

    now time to decide what is the next step...thinking of cleaning up the engine bay a bit, repairing some of the firewall cutting around the distributor notch-out, look into an electric wiper motor mount and I think I want to take the new to me sbc350 and start doing a bit of test fitting....I am very concerned the steering shaft is going to be in the way of the side block motor mounts to the frame...
     
  18. Nov 27, 2020
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    I'm very excited that you're digging in to this thing. Baby steps will get you there....
     
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  19. Nov 27, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Now's a good time to push it out and hook the pressure washer to the hot water.
    Also your chance to put fresh paint in the engine bay.
     
  20. Nov 27, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    X2
     
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