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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Jul 23, 2020
    officer_friendly

    officer_friendly Member

    Northern California
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    220v Mig would get you set up nicely for future projects, but the frames are 1/8" if I recall correctly, comfortably within the capacity of a 110v. Flux core wire will provide better penetration versus gas mig because the gas actually cools the weld pool. I would run a few test coupons to make sure you have your settings dialed in just right.

    Make sure you drill a hole where the cracks end and then cut the crack out with a cutoff wheel. And you'll want to do the weld in one pass. On my old frame that I junked, there were cracks at all the spring hangers so that seems to be a critical spot to reinforce. I had welded several cracks previously using this same technique, and when the frame broke, none of the spots that I had previously welded were broken.
     
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  2. Jul 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I have a small machine - Lincoln 110V/88amp good up to 1/8" - I think I can make this work. Basically set it up as hot as it will go. I can run gas - have to go get the bottle filled - but wondering if it would be better with flux core given the situation (probably won't get this metal perfectly prepped, trying to get more penetration etc). Its been a while since I used shielding gas with solid wire, but seems like could control the weld better? Guess I could start with flux core, and if its not going well, go get the bottle filled etc.....

    going to work on cleaning up the cracks and prepping while thinking about this welding....
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  3. Jul 23, 2020
    officer_friendly

    officer_friendly Member

    Northern California
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    If you can get the settings right where your flux core runs nicely, I would just do that. When welding 1/8", 5/16", or even 1/4" with a 110v, you apply the same techniques for welding 1/2"+ with a 220v. (Good cleaning, preheat, beveling, multiple passes.) For your frame only the cleaning and maybe preheat are needed. The cruddy spatter that is usually associated with flux core is minimal if you have the settings right. I'd find some scrap metal and weld on it a bit until you're happy with the way it runs.

    But I completely agree gas mig is much cleaner and honestly easier to weld with vs flux core. The big plume of smoke from the burning flux makes visibility a lot more difficult vs the clean and crisp gas shielding. My welder I have used for lots of projects is very similar to yours, 110v Mig with a small bottle of C25 (25% CO2 75% Argon). I have used gas with 1/8" but it definitely does not weld super hot, preheating to around 250 F with a torch can help with that. Either choice should work fine, clean the metal well with a flap disc and wipe it with some brake cleaner.
     
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  4. Jul 23, 2020
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Active Member

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    I have welded cracks in my frame with a similar sized machine. As others have said, stop drill the ends and grind out the crack, I'll add pre heat the area if you can and let it cool slowly. I wrapped the area in my leather welding apron. And with the limited amperage, flux core seems to get better heat penetration.
     
  5. Jul 23, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    If possible.... get your welder as close to the 110v outlet as possible.
     
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  6. Jul 23, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I just did a bunch of welding on our pull-behind road grader (that broke far from a house and is too heavy to pick up) with car batteries and some 1/8” rod.
    It’s always a possibility.... :whistle:
     
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  7. Jul 23, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    While you're at it, you may want to make quick plates to box the frame above the spring hangers. They would be quick to install and easy to grind off later if you decide to fully box things in the off-season. It would spread some of the load to the upper part of the frame rail.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2020
    Lockman likes this.
  8. Jul 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I like this ideas, and is something I could do pretty easily I think...but would I be risking some sort of stess concentration adjacent to the plates - in other words, is it just going to move where the next cracking occurs...Of course, if it also makes it a bit stronger, then that trade-off is more than worth it....maybe it I fish-tailed them a bit on the ends...ok, back to work....

    dumb question - I should run a bead on both side of the 90angle, correct?
     
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  9. Jul 23, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Not a dumb question. The answer depends on your penetration into the crack. If after the first weld the bottom side looks like it was already welded, you had perfect penetration and more is not needed. But if you still see a crack, grind a slight V into that side and weld.

    The most critical thing is to avoid undercut; otherwise it’ll just be weakened along the edges of the welds and cracks will develop there. If you’re getting undercut, read up on it and adjust accordingly. Practice on a similar-thickness metal first.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Jul 23, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Frankly - I would pull the spring hangers and fix the frame - then put the hangers back on. Your going to need to get the inside 90 as well as fix the holes. I have some scrap frame rail material I would use to notch it out up into the flats on the outside, weld in the fresh bottom layer and fish plate over the seam. Then add some angle boxing to support it. Would last another 20 years at least that way.

    Your always welcome to come down here and I'll help you with it. Should only take a day at the most to do.
     
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  11. Jul 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    When I grind out the cracks, they are going to end up about the width of a thin cut-off disc - sound about right?
    Thanks - I may very well take you up on that in another day or so...I am going to work on this a bit more and see where I get tomorrow....
     
  12. Jul 23, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I got the two main stop end holes drilled....beginning to work on grind out the cracks. My question is how much or how far should I grind the cracks. Grind completely through leaving a gap about the width of the cutting wheel/disk between the sides? That is pretty easy where the cracks are large and open. But also also thinking about this in relation to the end of the crack that is more hairline as it near the stop hole....should I just grind a groove into it on each side, but not all the way through?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  13. Jul 23, 2020
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Active Member

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    That's the way I've done it, but it could vary depending on the crack. I feel like I get a better weld with some material in the groove.
     
  14. Jul 24, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Agree, I would grind most of the way though from the outside and not grind the inside at all. As ITLKSEZ noted, your weld might penetrate through and you won't need to weld the inside. And rather than grinding a groove the width of the wheel, you want a V-shaped trough to fill in.
     
  15. Jul 27, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    We need pictures of the frame repair!
     
  16. Jul 27, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

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    Probably should have taken some during the process, but I was more concerned with getting it done in the time we had as it grew a bit once I saw all the damage.
     
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  17. Jul 27, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    exactly what I was thinking as well....I do wish I would have gotten one after the damaged section of the frame was cut out. I'll get some pics of the final product up reasonable soon. I hope to have a bit of time this afternoon for some jeep work....In addition to getting stuff ready for the San Juan trip, we turn right around for a multi-day river trip on the Colorado and then that is followed by a week long trip in Hells Canyon, ID on the Snake river. Thanks again Chuck!

    FWIW - my plan this afternoon is to weld in some bolt sleeves on the new front frame horn cross-member that will mount the oem bumper/tow bar brackets (using the holes we already drilled to get home the other night). I don't know if the 1/4" rectangular tubing really needs the sleeves (?), but it can't hurt, will be good practice for welding in the sleeves on the boxed frame section when I get to remounting the winch (not happening immediately), as well as be useful for future improvements with a different bumper and/or some recovery points. If I can get that done this afternoon, begin work a bit on a quick spray can paint job to last until the fall, then on Wed the replacement BDS spring is scheduled for delivery - not a hard install, but even just taking the time to paint U-bolts and let them dry can suck up a day. I also have a new set of tires for the Tacoma due in later this week - and those really need to be changed before heading to SW Colo as well. Sometime later this fall, I will go back in and finish the last of the frame boxing (requires removal of the radiator and grill) as well as redo the winch plate mounting with some new sleeved holes - the 1/8" fish plates on each side are enough to require some changes to winch plate and/or mounting brackets.

    Allright, I am off to the drop yard to pick up some metal, and I am going to stop and get my gas bottle filled and re-learn how my machine works with gas instead of flux core.
     
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  18. Jul 27, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Sounds like great progress and a really nice repair job.
     
  19. Jul 27, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I think I may have impacted Jame's perspective on how to do things... He had to do them my way at the shop Saturday, but I didn't have enough time to spend teaching him some of the welding techniques I used. Maybe on a subsequent trip down and day in the shop.
     
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  20. Jul 27, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    But just our discussion about how to weld wide gaps really helped....I played with some wide gaps this afternoon. I made a change to my welding cart to fit the large exchange bottle I picked up and it was a quick and dirty cut and weld - ended up working the wide gap quite well using more of a 'C' instead of the full loop to pull the weld puddle around. Also, with something like this that I am at the very entry level, there is a lot to be said for the visual side. When it comes to climbing or skiing or physics etc, I can talk the technical details with the best of them, but in the case of welding/fabricating, I still really need some visual. Maybe the single biggest thing I figured out watching your welding was the size or width of the loops needed to be bigger and slower - makes a huge difference! I also just am getting used to running stuff hotter - was welding 1/8" angle and actually found out where too hot was - got a sunken in weld. Still playing with the gas and need to practice a few for the circular end of the sleeve weld.

    Here are a few pics of where it stands - as the damage and cracking was so bad along the bottom 90 of the frame channel, the entire bottom half of both frame horns was cut out back about 9-10". Some bottom frame rails were scavenged from Chuck's pile of stuff and welded in. The shackle hangers had to be welded back on, the frame horns were mostly boxed (due to not wanting to remove the radiator and front grill, the back bit of boxing is left for me to finish this fall), a rectangular tube was welded in as a cross-member at the very front of the frame horns (how clean and easy Chuck fit that in was beauty in both form and function), and since I wanted the 20year warranty, some fish plate was added to the outside of the frame rails to reinforce the long welds were the bottom halves were burned in. And then I drove through some light rain getting home and everything flash rusted overnight....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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